Incident in Riberas

espíritu del lago wrote:If anyone hears anything else, I would be interested in knowing who he was.

Thank you.

I sent you an IM.

Doctor,.... for computer wizards it takes only a few hours to build an on line secure database, where people can leave (from their homes) their info, that you can access. Not much money nor time envolved, just good will.
You only need a contact person and maybe name of insurance to begin with (not very private all that).
Take a break from the computer and please, go back to the red cross, tell them it is you idea and have someone start it, so that Mexicans and expats can use it.
One fact : it will not hurt, but will definetely save at least someone one day.

As in this case, you (or your colleague) would have found a lot of contacts and info on line on this man, as he was known and loved.
I bet that if you take 10 expats, that I would be able to find on line info (on them) on 8. Because of being an expat, they are often computer literate (or info is out about them).

I still believe that in situations like this a direct transport from the scene of the crime to the nearest hospital is the solution, while doing the maximum of stablelizing in the ambulance. He had been on the floor for probably 13 hours,.... 15 minutes more driving time will probably not make the difference,.... compared to 5 hours at a place that is not equipped for helping him.... I know what I would choose, wouldn't you ?

Now, bare in mind,.... this is only one case, that we know. God knows, if all this happens all the time (as my Mexican friends confirm and have read in local Mexican newspapers or directly witnessed themselves).
It would be nice if something positive comes out of this, that lessons will be learnt, so that Bentley did not die in vain,.... but I will not hold my breath (they might have to take me to the red cross, if I suffocate).

I sure hope that a journalist picks up on this. All this is too crazy. I thank this webboard/forum for letting us have this important discussion.

Rony

I've tried to follow this post, with mixed emotions, did I miss something? The man was beaten, laid inpain for 10 hours or more? Shouldn't this government have an exception to the rule so to speak, save his life period! Get him to the nearest hospital! Insurance should not be an issue!

I'd hate to think if any one of us were brutally attacked, that payment would be an issue. Bad press for Mexico, Just Sayin! I appologize if I am off track.

JimW

Jim W wrote:I've tried to follow this post, with mixed emotions, did I miss something? The man was beaten, laid inpain for 10 hours or more? Shouldn't this government have an exception to the rule so to speak, save his life period! Get him to the nearest hospital! Insurance should not be an issue!

I'd hate to think if any one of us were brutally attacked, that payment would be an issue. Bad press for Mexico, Just Sayin! I appologize if I am off track.

JimW

In the USA, he would be taken to the closest hospital with the level needed to treat to treat him. In this case in Mexico, it is the nearest hospital (Cruz Roja) that would accept him. Unfortunately, the Cruz Roja inherits many patients that need more than we can give. We get them because there in no one else to accept them at the moment.

In this specific case, the patient was taken to the Cruz Roja in Guadalajara to wait permission to go to Hospital Civil (they have more resources and are closer). He then got permission and was treated at Hospital Civil.

The "best" thing would be to rebuild the Cruz Roja, have am MRI, CAT, operating room, 24-hour laboratory, and more doctors. It would cost about $2.5 million and $30,000usd a month after that.

The second best is having a database.

Third best: S.A.M.U.

Has Carlos Slim coughed up the donations made through Telmex yet?

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:

Jim W wrote:I've tried to follow this post, with mixed emotions, did I miss something? The man was beaten, laid inpain for 10 hours or more? Shouldn't this government have an exception to the rule so to speak, save his life period! Get him to the nearest hospital! Insurance should not be an issue!

I'd hate to think if any one of us were brutally attacked, that payment would be an issue. Bad press for Mexico, Just Sayin! I appologize if I am off track.

JimW

In the USA, he would be taken to the closest hospital with the level needed to treat to treat him. In this case in Mexico, it is the nearest hospital (Cruz Roja) that would accept him. Unfortunately, the Cruz Roja inherits many patients that need more than we can give. We get them because there in no one else to accept them at the moment.

In this specific case, the patient was taken to the Cruz Roja in Guadalajara to wait permission to go to Hospital Civil (they have more resources and are closer). He then got permission and was treated at Hospital Civil.

The "best" thing would be to rebuild the Cruz Roja, have am MRI, CAT, operating room, 24-hour laboratory, and more doctors. It would cost about $2.5 million and $30,000usd a month after that.

The second best is having a database.

Third best: S.A.M.U.

People may want to rethink moving to Mexico......If, God forbid they were ever a victem.....and then left to die....kinda like the USA last week, when the assisted care facility refused to do CPR on a 87 year old woman, because they weren't authorized to do it, so they let her die.....for fear of lawsuit......this is one FUCKED up world we now live in!

Maybe someone who has been here long enough would like to mention and explain the exact circumstances about the fundraising and sponsorship of an ambulance circa 2004-5-6. It continues from that day to sit locked in the chainlink enclosure behind the ajijic clinic. What a boondoggle that whole thing idea turned out to be and government rules, regulations, responsibility and ownership squabbles were just some of the tall hurdles which could not be overcome to keep it functioning.

Then there is the recent exploratory outreach by the big westside hospital as to a subscription ambulance service. For a yearly fee it would be responsive and have your address on GPS and medical history on computer. If you should have to call them the cost would begin from the time they left their homebase and continue until they returned. This cost included a minute cost for the ambulance, the personnel in the ambulance, the personnel at the other end in the hospital advising the ambulance, the driving expenses and any medical procedures done while at your home or on board the ambulance. All of those costs were yours even if you decided not to go into the hospital. The cost was stratospheric. Just the subscription would have been $750 or so per covered person in your household.

Jim W - that woman had a standing DNR order which someone decided their own personal religious beliefs would not allow them to honor but the nurse who was familiar with the case stuck to her guns. The woman's family have publicly stated that they are fine with the result and if the DNR had been ignored and their mother resusitated they would be suing the place and the person.

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:

espíritu del lago wrote:If anyone hears anything else, I would be interested in knowing who he was.

Thank you.

I sent you an IM.

Thank very much.

"I also do not fully understand your need for agression towards those who tell the truth like it is. This is a serious thread. Your worthless agression does not help anyone here."

Dr Sam: Please reread the context of your original statement where you used heavy sarcasm in an attempt to make a point. To call my response aggression or aggressive behavior sets a fairly low bar! Since I don't have a current "dog in the fight" as I live elsewhere, I was merely commenting on your forumside manner!

Let me add this to it, for people on Seguro Popular..... from DIRECT source.

At the hospital civil, where this man "finally" ended up, in very grave condition, they did not move him to intensive care, because (and listen to this reasoning) there were other people less grave and younger than he was (and they could go there first). Something to think about, no ?
I do not like to go into detail because I can not ask the man's permission anymore to be allowed to talk about it too much. But all this is so important to know, for everybody outthere.
He was in a facility where 20, 50 or more patients were lined up. It would remind you of world war I (not II). Every patient has to bring his/her own caregiver that has to sleep on the hard floor.

The other side of the coin.... it is a free or low cost facility and I heard that the staff at the hospital civil did a good job, taking care of him.
All this, to put things in perspective, but this thread should also be a wake up call for people who want to live here. It seems to me that in every country, a human life is worth a certain price, .... can be high but sometimes pretty low.

The hospital civil still is something to be proud of, in a way, because thanks to this, a lot of poor people get care that they otherwise would not get. I know people who got great treatment there and who are very pleased with it. Very sadly, I personally had to witness the opposite, where sometimes nurses do not care about the patient and hygiene was really below all standards (all that, is putting it mildly). And until today, it still upsets me so much.
On the other hand, first aid, emergency care, is not something to be too proud of here.

At the hospital civil, you would find the very best and excellent doctors, but you better do your homework before you decide to go there, because you would find the lousiest surgeons as well. It is a bit like a lottery ticket. Hence, my question.... would you be willing to buy that lottery ticket if your life is at stake ?
The harsh reality of living in Mexico, but on this whole thread (including what happened to B. and how he was treated after the attack) there is nothing that would surprise the average Mexican.

Rony

........"there is nothing that would surprise the average Mexican."

Probably so very true! While the average Gringo has cared to brag about the accessibility of quality medical care in Guadalajara, I would guess that the complications expressed in this incident raises details that many haven't considered?

I am sure that most of us have several friends who know us well enough to accept the financial responsibility, so we should have their names and contact numbers in our wallets, and those people should have our insurance information available. That would help a lot.

cosalamx wrote:I am sure that most of us have several friends who know us well enough to accept the financial responsibility, so we should have their names and contact numbers in our wallets, and those people should have our insurance information available. That would help a lot.

Unless your wallets are stolen.

Jim W wrote:
People may want to rethink moving to Mexico......If, God forbid they were ever a victem.....and then left to die....kinda like the USA last week, when the assisted care facility refused to do CPR on a 87 year old woman, because they weren't authorized to do it, so they let her die.....for fear of lawsuit......this is one FUCKED up world we now live in!

It is a complication that service is sometimes not rendered due to fear of lawsuits. I could go into detail about that, but another day. Regarding the woman, here is a different view of same event.

http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2013/03/the-nurse-who-denied-cpr/

If I'm 87 & have a massive stroke what is the point of doing CPR? So I can be a vegetable for a couple of years costing a fortune with NO quality of life?

Glad I'm here in Mexico & not there if that should happen to me.

Carry Bean wrote:If I'm 87 & have a massive stroke what is the point of doing CPR? So I can be a vegetable for a couple of years costing a fortune with NO quality of life?

Glad I'm here in Mexico & not there if that should happen to me.

I agree with you carry b! Now that I am aware of the DNR and her condition, why was the 911 tape released to the public?
This issue should have never hit the press, who as usual ran with it before facts were known, sensationalizing a sad, not uncommon occurrence.

I would hope no one would do CPR on someone having a stroke (stroke = brain, CPR = Heart).

Carry Bean wrote:If I'm 87 & have a massive stroke what is the point of doing CPR? So I can be a vegetable for a couple of years costing a fortune with NO quality of life?

Glad I'm here in Mexico & not there if that should happen to me.

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:

Jim W wrote:
People may want to rethink moving to Mexico......If, God forbid they were ever a victem.....and then left to die....kinda like the USA last week, when the assisted care facility refused to do CPR on a 87 year old woman, because they weren't authorized to do it, so they let her die.....for fear of lawsuit......this is one FUCKED up world we now live in!

It is a complication that service is sometimes not rendered due to fear of lawsuits. I could go into detail about that, but another day. Regarding the woman, here is a different view of same event.

http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2013/03/the-nurse-who-denied-cpr/

Good link Dr. Thelin.
I had a DNR on my mum when she was in a nursing home. Acting as her POA, I did it because THAT'S WHAT HER DIRECTIVE TO ME WAS WHEN SHE WAS ABLE TO COMMUNICATE IT. We talked many times about quality of life after a certain age and I respected her wishes.
I liked one of the posts (in the link) that talked about DNR bracelets. If we can all get on the same page here, and not put the burden on the Red Cross to determine the how, when, where and who is needed if we have a catastrophic event take place...may I suggest 1) info in the wallet or purse and glove compartment of the car 2) info on the fridge 3) the bracelet. In the community that we live, there is a list of owners/renters AND their emergency contact information.
Our Doctor also has a letter from each of us indicating what our wishes are.
God forbid, that any of us should have to go through what Bentley did, but sticking our heads in the sand and parking the blame on the Red Cross or the S.A.M.U. system doesn't make sense.
Be PROACTIVE in your health care while functional and make your wishes known in appropriate places. Have a plan in place.
Other ideas and solutions would be appreciated.

[quote="Dr. Sam Thelin"]I would hope no one would do CPR on someone having a stroke (stroke = brain, CPR = Heart).

Exactly, two separate emergency protocols involved. Right Dr. Thelin?

[quote="melwhitlock"]

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:I would hope no one would do CPR on someone having a stroke (stroke = brain, CPR = Heart).

Exactly, two separate emergency protocols involved. Right Dr. Thelin?

Yes, but if a person "collapses" and is unconscious and appears to not be breathing, what caused the problem is a big unknown. So, what would you suggest be done Dr. Thelin?

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:I would hope no one would do CPR on someone having a stroke (stroke = brain, CPR = Heart).

Carry Bean wrote:If I'm 87 & have a massive stroke what is the point of doing CPR? So I can be a vegetable for a couple of years costing a fortune with NO quality of life?

Glad I'm here in Mexico & not there if that should happen to me.

There was no doctor there to diagnose, smartass. The whole brouhaha was over the nurse's refusal to follow the orders of the 911 operator.

Carry Bean wrote:

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:I would hope no one would do CPR on someone having a stroke (stroke = brain, CPR = Heart).

Carry Bean wrote:If I'm 87 & have a massive stroke what is the point of doing CPR? So I can be a vegetable for a couple of years costing a fortune with NO quality of life?

Glad I'm here in Mexico & not there if that should happen to me.

There was no doctor there to diagnose, smartass. The whole brouhaha was over the nurse's refusal to follow the orders of the 911 operator.

That is correct. The nurse was a MORON. I wouldn't want one of my parents in a dump like that.

Wow John, you could read more on the incident and discover that the Nurse was not employed as a nurse but as an administrator. How do make the leap that the place was a dump? Apparently, it is a facility with three levels of care. You want medical staff on hand, you pay extra for that and it was the lady's choice to have independent living.
Personally, at 87 years of age, I would have a DNR ordered tatooed on my forehead so there would be absolutely NO question of what I wanted. And heaven help any do-gooder who violated my wishes.

ferret wrote:Wow John, you could read more on the incident and discover that the Nurse was not employed as a nurse but as an administrator. How do make the leap that the place was a dump? Apparently, it is a facility with three levels of care. You want medical staff on hand, you pay extra for that and it was the lady's choice to have independent living.
Personally, at 87 years of age, I would have a DNR ordered tatooed on my forehead so there would be absolutely NO question of what I wanted. And heaven help any do-gooder who violated my wishes.

So she was in an Independent Living Facility which means you get NO MEDICAL CARE. I seriously doubt that. In other words, OK lady crawl off to the corner and die. We don't give a s.

And an Administrator who cannot call for a Nurse should be fired without severance pay!

So, you don't think anyone should live beyond 87 years old. My mother lived a very healthy life until 93 years old and drove until she was 90 years old. She was in better health than most all of you on this forum and certainly in better health than most of the old farts at Lakeside.

So John, at age 68: are you the picture of health?