Incident in Riberas

slainte39 wrote:As Thomas Jefferson said..."God and Winchester made all men equal"

I think what he actually said was, "God made all men equal; Winchester made men and women equal."

-m.

merry wrote:

slainte39 wrote:As Thomas Jefferson said..."God and Winchester made all men equal"

I think what he actually said was, "God made all men equal; Winchester made men and women equal."

-m.

Now that sounds much better. However I think I'll stick with wasp spray, a guard dog and my rebar. Lotta kneecaps going down the drain if anyone tries to get in here.

merry wrote:

slainte39 wrote:As Thomas Jefferson said..."God and Winchester made all men equal"

I think what he actually said was, "God made all men equal; Winchester made men and women equal."

-m.

Who?...Tom?...let's not go down that road again as I have already been tweaked.

slainte39 wrote:

merry wrote:

slainte39 wrote:As Thomas Jefferson said..."God and Winchester made all men equal"

I think what he actually said was, "God made all men equal; Winchester made men and women equal."

-m.

Who?...Tom?...let's not go down that road again as I have already been tweaked.

Just messin' with ya Slainte, everyone knows it was George Washington.



-m.

Update, the older guy has died in hospital. That makes two dead, and no arrests as yet.

E-raq wrote:Update, the older guy has died in hospital. That makes two dead, and no arrests as yet.

GD freakin' shame. I suppose he was just too old to withstand the injuries. I hope they catch them and hang them by the you know what.

Very sorry to hear that the older fellow has passed away.

joec wrote:I hope they catch them and hang them by the you know what.

A comforting thought, but unlikely. If there is a big enough outcry, somebody will be caught and confess, and then the whole case may well disappear from the media. One can always hope that the actual perpretrators will be identified, tried and punished appropriately, but chances are that they won't.
By the way, has anyone heard what happened in the case of the couple (elderly German ex-pat and his Mexican wife) who were murdered in the Haciendas Hotel a few months ago?

The local Chapala paper said the expat was only 66. I wonder if they were ever able to ask him about what happened...horrible.

http://www.paginaquesiselee.com.mx/index.php/contenido/noticias/13526-de-jardinero-en-riberas-del-pilar

I never saw him, but did have to talk to his family in the US regarding what happened. I cannot ethically discuss him medically, even though I was not the treating doctor before he was taken to Guadalajara. What I can non-medically say is based on the investigation, and I will only say this, not to spread rumors, but to put everyone at ease. It was very brutal, but it was personal. Whoever did it, if caught or not, is not targeting foreigners, seniors, etc. to anyone's knowledge.

MyHomeSweetHome wrote:The local Chapala paper said the expat was only 66. I wonder if they were ever able to ask him about what happened...horrible.

http://www.paginaquesiselee.com.mx/index.php/contenido/noticias/13526-de-jardinero-en-riberas-del-pilar

I spoke with several people, yesterday, at Bentley's Memorial Service, and the gringo community is very upset with the RED CROSS, as they kept Bentley here in Chapala at the RC for 5 hours, waiting for money to come in for the Ambulance Transfer.
They all stated this, "with as much money that the gringo's give to the RC, why in the world they not transfer him immediately. Had he gotten to the hospital immediately, that might have saved his life."
I think we have not heard the last about RC, as too many people are very upset.

chapala man wrote:I spoke with several people, yesterday, at Bentley's Memorial Service, and the gringo community is very upset with the RED CROSS, as they kept Bentley here in Chapala at the RC for 5 hours, waiting for money to come in for the Ambulance Transfer.
They all stated this, "with as much money that the gringo's give to the RC, why in the world they not transfer him immediately. Had he gotten to the hospital immediately, that might have saved his life."
I think we have not heard the last about RC, as too many people are very upset.

WOW!!! If this is true the RC can kiss their contributions goodbye. Whether money was an issue or not, the Red Cross is there to save his life PERIOD.

Would someone explain a little further about what "money" from where had to come in for the "ambulance transfer"?

I was (perhaps mistakenly) under the impression that the RC ambulance took the patient directly to a hospital when violent trauma occurs. No?
If not, what does happen after the RC ambulance picks up the patient?

joec wrote:

chapala man wrote:I spoke with several people, yesterday, at Bentley's Memorial Service, and the gringo community is very upset with the RED CROSS, as they kept Bentley here in Chapala at the RC for 5 hours, waiting for money to come in for the Ambulance Transfer.
They all stated this, "with as much money that the gringo's give to the RC, why in the world they not transfer him immediately. Had he gotten to the hospital immediately, that might have saved his life."
I think we have not heard the last about RC, as too many people are very upset.

WOW!!! If this is true the RC can kiss their contributions goodbye. Whether money was an issue or not, the Red Cross is there to save his life PERIOD.

Money is the issue John. Cruz Roja does the best they can with what they have. I think this type of an incident should highlight their/our plight and inspire more to give.

If I am beaten senseless who do they think is going to give them money? Local friends would pay it and some know where I keep our stash of emergency cash in the house but Cruz Roja wouldn't know who of our friends to call to get that money. Do they search the house for your wallet and pocket book? Use a credit card if they find it? They would have to find my wallet to even find out who I am and on any given day that could be in one of several purses or under a pile of papers on the desk.

There might be a small income earning possibility here for Cruz Roja. Charge $100 pesos a year to keep a computer record of your name, address and whom to notify locally and method of payment - not the card numbers but a binding contract of assurance of reimbursement. It would make a nice service project for some group.

Does anyone have the answers to my questions above? I'd really like to know; possibly prepare for such a situation.

I like Solajic's suggestions, too.

So what you are all saying is that after all the time I spent writing the article about how the lakeside emergency service functions, no one read it?

This is about S.A.M.U. This is NOT about paying money to the Cruz Roja.

http://www.insidelakeside.com/t6862-lakeside-emergency-response-system

If this is still confusing (Mexico is different), I will be at the Lake Chapala Society on the 13th to explain the system in detail.

[i]

solajijic wrote:If I am beaten senseless who do they think is going to give them money? Local friends would pay it and some know where I keep our stash of emergency cash in the house but Cruz Roja wouldn't know who of our friends to call to get that money. Do they search the house for your wallet and pocket book? Use a credit card if they find it? They would have to find my wallet to even find out who I am and on any given day that could be in one of several purses or under a pile of papers on the desk.

There might be a small income earning possibility here for Cruz Roja. Charge $100 pesos a year to keep a computer record of your name, address and whom to notify locally and method of payment - not the card numbers but a binding contract of assurance of reimbursement. It would make a nice service project for some group.

You are 100% correct. Now I'm getting furious, WTF does money have to do with saving a life? Is the Red Cross so money hungry for a few $$$, that they can't take a patient in dire need to a Guadalajara hospital to save him/her? Precious time is most important. Red Cross gets THOUSANDS of $$$ donated by Gringos!!!!

You can be furious all you want but Cruz Roja is NOT the Red Cross nor is it an emergency medical services like NoB. Its a shoestring operation which is as you say run on a lot of expat donations. However the Mexican community donates too. Your donations go to keep the place open and as I have been told it is rare that anyone who gets medical service there pays anywhere near what the cost is to provide it. Usually they pay a bit and i am told sometimes someone will pay more.

I this house we have already determined that should we use their building services for anything the cost plus $1000 pesos would be our payment. We decide these things ahead of time so we are both aware of them and on the same page.

joec wrote:

solajijic wrote:If I am beaten senseless who do they think is going to give them money? Local friends would pay it and some know where I keep our stash of emergency cash in the house but Cruz Roja wouldn't know who of our friends to call to get that money. Do they search the house for your wallet and pocket book? Use a credit card if they find it? They would have to find my wallet to even find out who I am and on any given day that could be in one of several purses or under a pile of papers on the desk.

There might be a small income earning possibility here for Cruz Roja. Charge $100 pesos a year to keep a computer record of your name, address and whom to notify locally and method of payment - not the card numbers but a binding contract of assurance of reimbursement. It would make a nice service project for some group.

You are 100% correct. Now I'm getting furious, WTF does money have to do with saving a life? Is the Red Cross so money hungry for a few $$$, that they can't take a patient in dire need to a Guadalajara hospital to save him/her? Precious time is most important. Red Cross gets THOUSANDS of $$$ donated by Gringos!!!!

Did you read the article I wrote?

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:So what you are all saying is that after all the time I spent writing the article about how the lakeside emergency service functions, no one read it?

This is about S.A.M.U. This is NOT about paying money to the Cruz Roja.

http://www.insidelakeside.com/t6862-lakeside-emergency-response-system

If this is still confusing (Mexico is different), I will be at the Lake Chapala Society on the 13th to explain the system in detail.

[i]

My apologies, I thought the Red Cross could take anyone to a private hospital as I would be willing to pay the going rate. Yes, I read it and it's typical of any government bureaucracy. And wait for a permit number in Mexico, you'll be dead and buried before that happens.

Sure happy I have Private Medical Insurance and not IMSS or Seguro Popular.

solajijic wrote:You can be furious all you want but Cruz Roja is NOT the Red Cross nor is it an emergency medical services like NoB. Its a shoestring operation which is as you say run on a lot of expat donations. However the Mexican community donates too. Your donations go to keep the place open and as I have been told it is rare that anyone who gets medical service there pays anywhere near what the cost is to provide it. Usually they pay a bit and i am told sometimes someone will pay more.

I this house we have already determined that should we use their building services for anything the cost plus $1000 pesos would be our payment. We decide these things ahead of time so we are both aware of them and on the same page.

All the Red Crosses in all the world are part of the same organization. You could compare it to a franchise. While it uses the same logo, etc, each country has its own different laws regulating how they function. Each one is financially independant.

Each person is presented with a "bill" after treatment that covers the cost of the materials (the cost of paying the workers is paid by other donations). It is never mandatory. Mexicans and foreigners alike have signed the paper and left without paying anything at the time. Some return and pay, some pay more, some never pay.

joec wrote:

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:So what you are all saying is that after all the time I spent writing the article about how the lakeside emergency service functions, no one read it?

This is about S.A.M.U. This is NOT about paying money to the Cruz Roja.

http://www.insidelakeside.com/t6862-lakeside-emergency-response-system

If this is still confusing (Mexico is different), I will be at the Lake Chapala Society on the 13th to explain the system in detail.

[i]

My apologies, I thought the Red Cross could take anyone to a private hospital as I would be willing to pay the going rate. Yes, I read it and it's typical of any government bureaucracy. And wait for a permit number in Mexico, you'll be dead and buried before that happens.

Sure happy I have Private Medical Insurance and not IMSS or Seguro Popular.

Yes, we can take anyone to any private hospital without permission. By law, a hospital cannot deny emergency medical services. However, the hospital will require someone to be financially responsible. The patient will not leave until the bill is paid, and if they do not pay it, the responsible person will be sued, and to secure the litigation process before a judgment even hapens, anything of value will be taken from that person's home, assets frozen, etc. If the person never had the means to pay, that would be considered fraud in Mexico.

The best hospitals for this type of trauma are often government hospitals such as Hospital Civil, which is where the person went for the actual treatment after receiving permission.

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:

joec wrote:

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:So what you are all saying is that after all the time I spent writing the article about how the lakeside emergency service functions, no one read it?

This is about S.A.M.U. This is NOT about paying money to the Cruz Roja.

http://www.insidelakeside.com/t6862-lakeside-emergency-response-system

If this is still confusing (Mexico is different), I will be at the Lake Chapala Society on the 13th to explain the system in detail.

[i]

My apologies, I thought the Red Cross could take anyone to a private hospital as I would be willing to pay the going rate. Yes, I read it and it's typical of any government bureaucracy. And wait for a permit number in Mexico, you'll be dead and buried before that happens.

Sure happy I have Private Medical Insurance and not IMSS or Seguro Popular.

Yes, we can take anyone to any private hospital without permission. By law, a hospital cannot deny emergency medical services. However, the hospital will require someone to be financially responsible. The patient will not leave until the bill is paid, and if they do not pay it, the responsible person will be sued, and to secure the litigation process before a judgment even hapens, anything of value will be taken from that person's home, assets frozen, etc. If the person never had the means to pay, that would be considered fraud in Mexico.

The best hospitals for this type of trauma are often government hospitals such as Hospital Civil, which is where the person went for the actual treatment after receiving permission.

When I went into Del Carmen Hospital for two different operations, I presented them with a credit card. Upon leaving they charged for incidentals because it was an accident.

I was at the memorial service yesterday and talked to people who were with him and, you can write as many articles as you like and try to paint as beautiful explanation as you want.... This is unforgivable and people should really think, not twice, but 10 times before contributing to the red cross !
You like to compare to ANY other country.... well, in any country you call an ambulance and are taken to the hospital SOON, and no discussion about the bill. A human life equals the price of an ambulance ride ????

I am very sad and angry but apart from being critical, I also have a suggestion.
The Chapala clinic moved into brand new, clean and spatious premises a couple of months ago. They have wonderful doctors and nurses but no equipment. I am highly convinced that there is where the money should go, to help them buy everything they need (even turn it into a small hospital for minor surgery). Money on the table and on the same time, some kind of contract, where dying people are not kept until money is showed. Maybe also have a database there, where all inhabitants (Mexicans and foreigners) can have a file, with information about possible insurance, or other....
The Chapala clinic is also on a good location, close to the road to Guadalajara and has ambulances.

Hopefully, people will think seriously about this as this really is the only alternative. We can not (nor is it up to us) change the system, but maybe help find a better alternative.

The man had been lying there, wounded, in his house for about 12 to 15 hours, how can one possibly even try to explain that you keep him another 5 hours before taking him to a hospital ? Totallly unforgivable .... and stronger words come to my mind but since I understand that this is "the system" (oh, how I hate that word), more than the red cross people, I will not use stronger words.

elbelgicano wrote:I was at the memorial service yesterday and talked to people who were with him and, you can write as many articles as you like and try to paint as beautiful explanation as you want.... This is unforgivable and people should really think, not twice, but 10 times before contributing to the red cross !
You like to compare to ANY other country.... well, in any country you call an ambulance and are taken to the hospital SOON, and no discussion about the bill. A human life equals the price of an ambulance ride ????

I am very sad and angry but apart from being critical, I also have a suggestion.
The Chapala clinic moved into brand new, clean and spatious premises a couple of months ago. They have wonderful doctors and nurses but no equipment. I am highly convinced that there is where the money should go, to help them buy everything they need (even turn it into a small hospital for minor surgery). Money on the table and on the same time, some kind of contract, where dying people are not kept until money is showed. Maybe also have a database there, where all inhabitants (Mexicans and foreigners) can have a file, with information about possible insurance, or other....
The Chapala clinic is also on a good location, close to the road to Guadalajara and has ambulances.




Hopefully, people will think seriously about this as this really is the only alternative. We can not (nor is it up to us) change the system, but maybe help find a better alternative.

The man had been lying there, wounded, in his house for about 12 to 15 hours, how can one possibly even try to explain that you keep him another 5 hours before taking him to a hospital ? Totallly unforgivable .... and stronger words come to my mind but since I understand that this is "the system" (oh, how I hate that word), more than the red cross people, I will not use stronger words.

I agree, and will no longer be donating to the Red Cross for a variety of reasons, this just being one of them. Some of them are hearsay so I will not repeat them, however this was a truly abysmal way to treat a dying man. Shocking!

The Chapala Clinic gets my donations from now on.

Thanks for the repeat of the flow chart and the information.

So, if I understand correctly, if I am unconscious but have my IMSS card in my wallet and it is current, will I be taken directly to an IMSS hospital and my doctor, whose card is also in my wallet, also will be called? Or will I be left at the Red Cross for some other action to be taken?