Murder in Jocotepec

Why are the papers so wrong on this?

This is nothing!!!  Loved the circular cut comment.  

With the exception of Dale Palfrey's reporting, a good 85% of the 'information' reported as fact on Nina and Eduardo, and on their murders, was completely wrong.  

And people think these webboards contain nothing factual!  lolololol

Trailrunner wrote:This is nothing!!!  Loved the circular saw comment.  

With the exception of Dale Palfrey's reporting, a good 85% of the 'information' reported as fact on Nina and Eduardo, and on their murders, was completely wrong.  

 lolololol

and you know all this , how?

I knew John, however he almost always was so drunk I could not have a conservation with him. He would drive his orange convertible VW and was very dangerous. The last time I saw him was Sunday a Mexican drove him home. He was so drunk he could not get out of the car. He died somewhere between Monday and Tuesday.
The owners of the park here had a meeting with the residents here. They said he died from a fall and bleed and vomited. I deep down don't believe this. I also have a source with the police which said his arm was severed he was murdered. There three people have been arrested and are in Guadalajara. There are two sets of cameras here...in the park and the first gate you drive into Roca. The police have the data.

The park owners have a selfish reason FOR NO BAD PUBLICITY HERE. If I have been lied to I may leave here. John was not a bad guy just hung with a bad crowd and dranked way too much. I feel just as safe here and most of Mexico as always.
We will have to wait for the Guadalajara Reporter to uncover the whole story. I hope.

Ron, it has to be very traumatic for you being in such close proximity to this heinous act AND being lied to by the park owners, but I think you know what really happened . The owners of the park should be ashamed of themselves , truth is an important part of closure and the residents deserve that.
If you are happy where you live I hope you can come to terms with it and continue to be happy where you are.

vetteforron wrote:I knew John, however he almost always was so drunk I could not have a conservation with him. He would drive his orange convertible VW and was very dangerous. The last time I saw him was Sunday a Mexican drove him home. He was so drunk he could not get out of the car. He died somewhere between Monday and Tuesday.
The owners of the park here had a meeting with the residents here. They said he died from a fall and bleed and vomited. I deep down don't believe this. I also have a source with the police which said his arm was severed he was murdered. There three people have been arrested and are in Guadalajara. There are two sets of cameras here...in the park and the first gate you drive into Roca. The police have the data.

The park owners have a selfish reason FOR NO BAD PUBLICITY HERE. If I have been lied to I may leave here. John was not a bad guy just hung with a bad crowd and dranked way too much. I feel just as safe here and most of Mexico as always.
We will have to wait for the Guadalajara Reporter to uncover the whole story. I hope.

So I don't get it. If you knew all this, why did you dispute what Dr. Sam had to say?

Smartalex wrote:

vetteforron wrote:I knew John, however he almost always was so drunk I could not have a conservation with him. He would drive his orange convertible VW and was very dangerous. The last time I saw him was Sunday a Mexican drove him home. He was so drunk he could not get out of the car. He died somewhere between Monday and Tuesday.
The owners of the park here had a meeting with the residents here. They said he died from a fall and bleed and vomited. I deep down don't believe this. I also have a source with the police which said his arm was severed he was murdered. There three people have been arrested and are in Guadalajara. There are two sets of cameras here...in the park and the first gate you drive into Roca. The police have the data.

The park owners have a selfish reason FOR NO BAD PUBLICITY HERE. If I have been lied to I may leave here. John was not a bad guy just hung with a bad crowd and dranked way too much. I feel just as safe here and most of Mexico as always.
We will have to wait for the Guadalajara Reporter to uncover the whole story. I hope.

So I don't get it. If you knew all this, why did you dispute what Dr. Sam had to say?

I hate reporters or people which say I sources and don't name them. Mine is the police which I have spoke to just late this morning. Plus by challenging sometimes you can get more information.

It sounds like he's been on the fence about it , having been given two entirely different sets of information , he wasn't sure where the truth is and he's probably kind of in shock.
He doesn't know , or didn't know who Dr. Sam is but he probably trusted his landlord. It seems like he's starting to realize ...still he wants to see what the GDL reporter has to say. I feel bad for him. Someone go slap those RV park owners.

We rented from the Roca Azul Club owners and found them to be - ahhh - sometimes less than straight forward. I'd believe Dr Sam.

Flamingo wrote:We rented from the Roca Azul Club owners and found them to be  - ahhh - sometimes less than straight forward. I'd believe Dr Sam.

I hate being lied to. Does anyone know how to get a copy of the coroners report?

Article about the three men arrested for murder:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dinformador%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DNfJ%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dsb&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=es&u=http://www.informador.com.mx/jalisco/2014/514818/6/arraigan-a-tres-hombres-por-asesinato-en-jocotepec.htm&usg=ALkJrhjs2futbOA1_GQou60IGpRFSClR0w

I am going to put my reputation on the line here, and I hope that I am right, because I will eat my words later. But, I too live in Roca Azul and was present when the investigators were here. I was a certified crime scene investigator and forensic technician, and I have investigated 100's of crime scenes in my career. I watched what the Mexican forensic unit was doing, and I was impressed. They were thorough and did everything by the book. Several things lead me to believe that it was an unattended death and not a homicide. The first, and most important, was that the door to the RV was locked. Most killers leave in a hurry and will not lock the door behind them, or leave through a window, which were all closed. There was no body, or body parts outside or under the RV. No one heard any noise, and anyone that has ever lived in an RV knows that these walls are paper thin!! Anyone being tortured would certainly make some noise.
Also, if it was a homicide, investigators would have interviewed ALL park residents, and they only spoke to a few. One last point is that the RV is still at the park. If it was a murder scene, it would have been towed or driven away and locked up at a police facility for further processing, which would take days to do.
Again, I could be wrong, and yes, anything is possible, and some people have all the reasons to cover it up and pass it off as not a murder. And, yes, this is Mexico and things are done differently, but what I saw, these guys did it all right.
There have been too many stories that just do not make sense and appear to have been fabricated. I hope I am right, and am leaning to the unattended death story, I met John and nearly predicted his outcome. Just last week I told my wife that he wold die alone in his RV. He looked horrible and was known for falling and bashing his head on the ground.
Either way, it was a horrible incident, and I really hope we can get the REAL story. I too will be VERY upset if we are being lied to for purposes of covering up the truth.

Thank you for your intelligent, experienced, first-hand report thesarge7.

So this Miguel Angel Alonzo Mendoza that they arrested is the gardener at the park? I read that in another link. None of the news stories that are being put out there now say that the guy was UNDER the trailer and there are some variations in small details (not unusual) but the important details...all claim it was a murder and the arm was detached and he was strangled.

The latest article posted could have used an editor in the original Spanish but it says Mendoza was the groundskeeper in the RV park and had an argument with the victim over a debt while he (Mendoza) was drunk and doped up, and attacked him, and "they" in some manner separated his arm from his body. He gave up two other subjects who are being also held for investigation. It says the body was found in the RV parking area.

http://www.dk1250.com/local/69647-arraigan-tres-personas-por-asesinato-de-norteamericano-en-jocotepec.html

The Office of the State Prosecutor is holding three persons in custody after the murder of a U. S. citizen in the municipality of Jocotepec. One of them said he had had an altercation with the deceased, stated Attorney General Luis Carlos Nájera.

“This person admitted to us that he had a quarrel with the deceased, that he was very much under the influence of drugs and alcohol and therefore does not remember how it ended”.

Nájera stated that the investigation will continue until they find out who all the parties guilty of these acts are.

Trailrunner wrote:Thank you for your intelligent, experienced, first-hand report thesarge7.

really? his report is based on his alleged NOB experience and viewing outside the realm and from a distance of the mexican professionals who would not have made him privy to anything they were doing,in any event. did this sarge follow the forensic pros everywhere they went to determine what they did or did not do? i doubt they would have let him. there is a confession according to the media and even fotos of some alleged perps-no?

I know that my post was a little lengthy, but I did mention that there WAS NO BODY under the RV , there were no detached body parts outside, and an eye witness that found the body said that his arms were attached to the body!!
I read the newspaper accounts of three men being arrested. I cannot explain this. I am not familiar with this groundskeeper, unless someone else is, I cannot verify that this guy Mendoza ever worked at the park.
All these things still don't add up. There are a lot of monkey wrenches in this entire thing.

thesarge7 wrote:I know that my post was a little lengthy, but I did mention that there WAS NO BODY under the RV , there were no detached body parts outside, and an eye witness that found the body said that his arms were attached to the body!!
  I read the newspaper accounts of three men being arrested. I cannot explain this. I am not familiar with this groundskeeper, unless someone else is, I cannot verify that this guy Mendoza ever worked at the park.
  All these things still don't add up. There are a lot of monkey wrenches in this entire thing.

thesarge7, Thank you for posting, I am fascinated by the whole CSI deal. Getting another's educated opinion makes for fun speculation!  

Pedro, you are correct. I did not watch these guys every step of the way. In fact, I was not even there the entire time of their investigation, nor did I get a close up view. But, what I did see from a distance, even for the short time I did get to see them work, they looked like they knew what they were doing. It is true that I can't verify that everything they did was perfect, but they were not the typical Keystone cops of yesterday. I just wanted to share my thoughts.
From my observations, I am not convinced that the media is reporting the true facts. I can say for certain what I stated above, and if only the fact that they have made a huge mistake as far as where the body was found, is enough for me to question the rest of this newspaper's reports.

Maybe there's 2 bodies. . .

CheenaGringo wrote:Article about the three men arrested for murder:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dinformador%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DNfJ%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dsb&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=es&u=http://www.informador.com.mx/jalisco/2014/514818/6/arraigan-a-tres-hombres-por-asesinato-en-jocotepec.htm&usg=ALkJrhjs2futbOA1_GQou60IGpRFSClR0w

In this link above there is a stock photo on the article (back shot) but in the first comment in the comment section someone has posted a front view photo suggesting that it is the 3 in custody but I cant link it to any article .

In Jocotepec

While under the influences of drugs and assaulted discussed

As a result of the investigations carried out by staff of the Public Prosecutor's Office , three men were seated for investigation in connection with the brawl in which a resident lost his life Jocotepec, of U.S. origin.

One is rooted Miguel Angel Alonso Mendoza, 35, who said that while under the influences of drugs and alcohol had a discussion with foreign and assaulted. The same person said that the material time there were two other individuals, who were investigated for their possible involvement.

The other two subjects are identified as Gustavo Aguilar Flores, 32 years old and Xilozochitl Carlos de los Santos, 30. On Thursday February 20, whose body was identified as John Paul Abeel, 63, of U.S. origin, was located in the area of ​​trailer park fractionation Roca Azul, in the town of Jocotepec.

The staff of the Attorney General's Office found elements which point to Alonso Mendoza, who was a gardener in the division, as the murderer. For this reason, the prosecutor requested a restriction order against the subject, which was granted by the Criminal Judge Chapala. In his first statement, Alonso Mendoza said he did participate in the assault against the alien, for the February 17, had an argument over a financial debt, but the words came to physical attacks.

Given the indication of implied that two other people had participated in the assault, the prosecutor gotten down to your location and requested a restriction order against him, which was granted.


THE DATA
The roots of the three subjects started on February 22 for a period of 30 days time in which the prosecution conducted investigations to bring criminal charges against the person or persons responsible for the death of John Paul Abeel.

Google Translate of article at
http://elgratuito.com.mx/tag/seguridad

thesarge7 wrote:Pedro, you are correct. I did not watch these guys every step of the way. In fact, I was not even there the entire time of their investigation, nor did I get a close up view. But, what I did see from a distance, even for the short time I did get to see them work, they looked like they knew what they were doing. It is true that I can't verify that everything they did was perfect, but they were not the typical Keystone cops of yesterday. I just wanted to share my thoughts.
 From my observations, I am not convinced that the media is reporting the true facts. I can say for certain what I stated above, and if only the fact that they have made a huge mistake as far as where the body was found, is enough for me to question the rest of this newspaper's reports.

the only speculation that you have come up with,is that the mexican professionals dealing with this case, in fact, acted professionally. the rest of your speculations-rumour and innuendo and flights of fantasy?

So they are "persons of interest", but not actually charged?