What happened at the Big Meeting today?

It is a real tragedy that "Mr Know It All about Dealing with the Mayor and the rest of the Chapala Municipal Authorities" is in Cuba establishing a new political base with Castro!

About 3000 attended. The group headed by Linda Fossi and Kim Everest offed 6 suggestions for improving security and suggestions on how to pay for them. Each of the dignitaries gave a brief speech. El Presidente agreed to open his Friday staff meeting to representatives from the community to evaluate the proposals and agree on a plan to move forward. IMHO it was a good meeting.

Those of you who didn't attend the meeting can read the details from the usual sources including the posts on TOB by those who didn't attend or left early.

CanuckBob wrote:So you think Mexicans are incapable of taking minutes or recording what occurred at a meeting?

No, I have no doubt Mexicans can take minutes, I have doubt of the interpretaion of Canadians. haha

canadiangirl wrote:

hound dog wrote:

CanuckBob wrote:Probably best to wait for detailed meeting minutes to be posted before jumping to conclusion or speculating on what may have or may not have been decided or discussed.

You disappoint me CB. "...detailed meeting minutes to be posted...." Posted where and by whom? Posted by whom with delineated resposibility for doing so honorable and with full disclosure? What proper authority actually sponsored this meeting and who appointed those people to speak for the community? Just what is that communiy and who appointed these minute keepers as chroniclers of full disclosure? I wasn´t there but I´ll bet that decisions made there were made in quicksand. Just remember, the harder you kick the faster you sink and suffocate.

bob, would you like to respond???

bob second request?????

solovino: all you have to do is SUGGEST more $ in mexico & somehow they will take it. i bet the american taxes will increase, & the mexicans will pay the same. want to bet? you know zero, i know the deal. and the mayor came so late as he hoped most of the people would leave. crime will increase (thats a no brainer), i hope the taxes wont. and linda fossi (stupid idiot), bragging to the mayor how important HER house values are? wrong again, thats not how to speak to these people.

Funny, I didn't hear a word about house values. I did hear about house sales are down this year and that in the last week 19 new listings for sale. I did hear that fewer folks are moving here, more are moving back NOB, and that fewer snowbirds are coming down. All bad signs for the local economy.

David, what was said about the hotline? Is the hotline suppose to be bi lingual & connected to the police station? Hotline for tips or an English line for English speakers or a hotline for all to call in tips in hopes of a reward?(yikes)

Anonymous hotline, bilingual, 24/7. Rewards if tip leads to prosecution.

solovino, & just how do YOU know how "things work"???

TOB gave a good summery. whether they left early or stayed, the reports are consistent. (concerning the first hour). the focus was on property values, which was a stupid approach. i was not there. i dont think 100% of TOB & the members here are making this up(?)

I may have been here for a short time and I don't know linda fossi or the the guy from the Moving company but their assessment of the past and current decline in the financial health of the community can't be ignored and whether were in Mexico or not comments the truth wasn't lost of the public officials officials as to if their a real decline in locals having jobs that wrath will come down on them too.

The large crowd might have been a real good sign that maybe there's hope here and their were plenty of Mexicans in the crowd too! Elected officials are always wanting to protect their jobs first and help folks second.
We all had better hope that their is light at the end of this tunnel and nota train otherwise your real estate value will disappear overnight

MyHomeSweetHome wrote:David, what was said about the hotline? Is the hotline suppose to be bi lingual & connected to the police station? Hotline for tips or an English line for English speakers or a hotline for all to call in tips in hopes of a reward?(yikes)

like david said - 24/7 bilingual.

But - you brought up a question about the police station.

You didn't mention the ministerio (no representative at the meeting).

If I catch the guys breaking into my house, I call the police. If I am out of town, and when I return, I find that my house was broken into - I report it to the ministerio. Right?

So the new "Crime Stopper" Group is going to have to interface with the Police and the Ministerio - I would guess.

Since neither the police or ministerio releases crime information, how is the "Crime Stopper" person suppose to know that they need to offer a reward? Sounds like some interesting challenges to make this workable for the Mexican and ExPat Community.

solovino, my family was here for almost as long as you have. im right in back of you. we have a different "take" on things. the real estate values should have been part 2 of the meeting. $ talks, but its "how" its done. as for taxes, how can you be 100% sure? things evolve, & the mex/american bed time story evolves. (look @ what has transpired since 2005). there is little accountability here, thats a fact. the $ would not go where they (linda's followers) want it too. a "volunteer" donation drive would be more fair. americans love to dish it out, they can have more "fund raisers". i myself would not give 1 cent for this, but @least no one will be knocking on my door w/a bigger tax bill. (what goes on in my "real" home town affects the world, as its one of the centers of the universe, if not "the" center. people who spent their lives there disagree as well & see things differently. we have meetings too, & there is global corruption. i didnt fall off a turnip truck. it is what it is, here AND there). i do not claim to know every in & out concerning mexico. but i stand by what i say. ok, someone disagrees w/you, get used to it.

Seems like everyone wants to get into a bit of name calling and be critical, but the only posts I read so far about the meeting that are accurate are from David.

I was there, I stayed until the end. I was impressed at the turnout.
Here's what I heard.

Linda F, who should be commended for her efforts on organizing this, did a reasonably good job. This was not intended to be a definitive meeting, just an opportunity for the community to show their concern and present 6 suggestions that were gleaned from 900 emails and phone calls combined.

The beginning of the meeting was slow and had a lot of facts about the market and economy, which were depressing but seemed factual.

The suggestions were prioritized and presented to the officials.
1. Boots on the Ground - more cops, training program, apprenticeship, beat cops, get to know their community. Good suggestion
2. More assistance from Jalisco State police until they can get # 1 up and running.
3. Anonymous hot line with a Crime Stoppers type approach. Reward system funded by the business community, complete anonymity, good idea
4. Check points that can be closed at entry points into / out of town
and a couple others I can't remember.

Purpose of the meeting was to merely present the suggestions to the officials and then have followup meetings later.

Officials said all the right things, after all what can they say. The guy from Jalisco was probably the best. He said he has been here 5 times in the last 4 years and he was not happy to be there, he was ashamed. His focus was on working together and apprehending the criminals, not on the money. He stated very clearly that "I don't want your money, I want information".

The tax issue they suggested was not discussed at length, it was a suggestion to try to show that everyone, Mexican & Expat alike, could afford a 1 p / sq mtr increase to help fund this.

Overall my opinion was that it was a very good start. The attendance was very impressive. People can be critical of the meeting all they want, but I give credit to those that organized it and tried to make it worthwhile. I believe a lot of work went into that meeting and hopefully it will be the start of something. We'll have to wait and see.

For those that did not attend and want to sit back and criticize what they heard second hand, well they are the same ones who will bitch about anything I guess.

Captain Contreras, the chief of police of Chapala made the remark about the money. He knows what promises about money are about since he got vey little when he house was damaged.
The other mand was Sr. Najera the thead of Security for Jalisco, he was the one who was embaradded.

The two highlights of the meeting was the turn out and El Churro spill at the end.

The meeting was not well times by the time the 4th suggestion was brought up people were leaving and I though the authorities would be left there without having said anything.

They asked to bring suggestion and that was a set up, don t you think they have their own ideas about what need to be done? Could we have asked them what they were planning to do rather than roll over and offer them all kinds of things they did not ask for.
I think it was very naive to go along with the program and have no dialogue with them.

I hope that Linda can strategized at the next meeting rather than offer offer and offer. Many of the solutions cannot be implemented anyways so it was a waste of time to have that large meeting without being prepared.
The forest was lost for the trees.

I have a slightly different take on the intent of the meeting.

My expectations for what was going to occur were set from the get-go by Linda. She solicited via email and board postings for everyone to send their one-line suggestion to her.
Then she, and some others, went over the emails and suggestions and culled them into the top 6.
She stated in her email that they would be "presented" at the meeting with the officials. She also stated that they hoped that the meeting would start the process with the officials and there would be followup meetings with the officials to determine if any of the suggestions were viable and hear what they were recommending.
It seems to me that all those things were accomplished and that a further meeting is now scheduled for Friday with the smaller group.
The size of the crowd and the fact that people were willing to donate money were, in my mind, expressions of how serious they believe the situation is and a demonstration to the officials of a willingness to help in any way they can.
To think that there would have been solutions discussed and anything meaningful coming out of the initial meeting would be naive in my opinion.

The tax issue is a big isue
There is no transparency as it is. We do not know how much tax is collected or goes uncollected. Where the money goes and what is allocated to the police.
1 peso per square meter is a huge increase in my book and I am pretty sure there would be an outcry and more uncollected taxes if this happened.
I calculate that I am paying 1.50 peso per sm now so who came up with the brilliant idea for the "small" increase?

The tax issue was a "suggestion" and it was only discussed slightly.
Of all the suggestions it would seem to be the most difficult one to assess due to having to go through all sorts of governmental hoops.
Why get all excited about it until it becomes a reality.
Everything that was discussed yesterday was only a first step and suggestions, relax and wait and see whether anything comes of it.
This is a serious issue and it seems some want immediate solutions, quick fixes and that just isn't in the cards.

I was not expecting anything to come out of the meeting so I was not disapponted but I was appalled that the "our leaders" would show all their cards when the authorities had barely anytime to speak, were not asked about their plans and ideas and therefore did not show any of their cards.
Sorry bad strategy in my book.

Since when does the government need suggestions on raising taxes. Get serious.

Municipal governments cannot levy taxes. That is done strictly on the state and federal levels. Property taxes collected stay within the municipality. As far as I know they can be spent at the discretion of the local authorities and make up a very small part of their total income. Then they must decide where the money will be spent. Priorities, people. More cops or more street repairs or street lighting etc.

Well, looks like we're about back where we started. Review your own security, have a meeting with the neighbors and keep yourself safe.

The focus on property values should not have been a surprise to anyone considering that a realtor organized the meeting. Mentioning that first was just a bad idea period.

The whole deal sounded like a knee jerk reaction without a whole lot of thought put into content.

That actually raises a good point, Solo. Just where do the munipalities get their money? From the VAT? I confess I don't know the answer to this question. If you do, please spell it out, thanks!

I agree Racqueteer but had it been made clear that those initial comments were directed at the expats to drive home how serious the situation is, it would have been better. However, as usual 20:20 hindsight is always better.

Frankly, given how piss poor the police protection is here, I am amazed at how little crime we have, particularly considering that the community is much more urban in it arrangement and the close proximity of relative wealth to poverty. We have a lot of folks here whose only experience is living in the 'burbs where there is no street crime because they are so isolated and no one is on the street anyway.

I guarantee that if the police were this inept NOB, the crime up there would be totally unbelievable. That it is not here is a tribute to the Mexican community IMO.

Solovino wrote:Municipal governments cannot levy taxes. That is done strictly on the state and federal levels. Property taxes collected stay within the municipality.

Thanks for the clarification, what you are saying is consistent with what I thought.

I am amazed at the amount of chatter on TOB about the tax issue, and I actually overheard cat calls at the meeting resisting any tax increase.
How is it that expats come down here and tout "I only pay $ 200 / yr in RE taxes" and expect to have the same level of services that you would get up north paying 20 and 30 times as much.
It's like the discussions on medical, people want full coverage through IMSS for $ 300 / yr and then complain about what it doesn't covered, or that they get rejected.

There ain't no free lunch, not even here in "paradise". If you can't afford to pay for what you want, then quit bitching about it and go find someplace better.

Juanrey - I agree completely that many people NOB come here for the low taxes, good weather and other low costs. The police are paid very little as are most municipal workers compared to in the US or Canada. And yet people expect the same level of protection from police here. I don't pretend to know the answer but I spend as much as I can on my own protection.