Templarios

didn't he say he was going to ireland for a while?

Slainte mentioned an up-coming trip to Ireland a while back.

Le's follow the money. From Fusion TV...

How California Workers Are Financing Vigilante Groups in Mexico

http://fusion.net/justice/story/california-residents-finance-vigilante-groups-mexico-419803

From El Universal...

Las transferencias de Estados Unidos al "Doctor Mireles".

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion-mexico/2014/impreso/las-transferencias-de-eu-al-8220doctor-mireles-8221-212763.html

Google Translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eluniversal.com.mx%2Fnacion-mexico%2F2014%2Fimpreso%2Flas-transferencias-de-eu-al-8220doctor-mireles-8221-212763.html

From La Razon...

Acusan de desvío de dinero y protagonismo al Dr. Mireles

http://razon.com.mx/spip.php?article213763

Google Translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Frazon.com.mx%2Fspip.php%3Farticle213763

merely more regurgitation of old news[especially the last link since there are a whole bunch of munis that continue to support his leadership] to continue your silly attempt to discredit doc mireles who is heroic in his endeavours.your tripe is totally meaningless in a venue like this except to a non accomplished twit like you.
what is your motivation for this? of course you won't answer that will you!

Thanks, SmartAlex!
Perhaps those who support and believe in Dr. Mireles could start a similar thread and provide the indepth background that led them to believe as they do?

Lady Otter Latté wrote:Thanks, SmartAlex!
Perhaps those who support and believe in Dr. Mireles could start a similar thread and provide the indepth background that led them to believe as they do?

what for. there is enough on here to support numerous positions and some of us have put forth non black and white opinions based on evidence on hand including borderland beat which is a numerous source blog that i have referenced many times.

Lady Otter Latté wrote:Thanks, SmartAlex!
Perhaps those who support and believe in Dr. Mireles could start a similar thread and provide the indepth background that led them to believe as they do?

perhaps you would like to start a new thread about nothing and then sell the concept to a tv network. whoops! i am a bad fellow suggesting an idea that has already been done-SNORK!

Pedro, since this thread seems to cause you so much concern why do you bother to read it????

CanuckBob wrote:Pedro, since this thread seems to cause you so much concern why do you bother to read it????

concern? are we to take one person's opinion with no others being valid? i am not the only one that finds smartguy's opinions somewhat lacking in validity on occasion, am i. shall we all sing kumbia. when something of such import is going on in some of the states next to and near us. perhaps jeffy,madmax and i should shaddup and let smartguy blithely carry on with his duplicitous verbiage-SNORK!

Start your own thread with all the truths then...........  

Ouch.

Why does there need to be a new thread? Is open discussion prohibited under the forum rules?

Smartalex has an agenda and posts only links and info that supports his position. There isn't one gram of objectivity in his posts. For example, I may have missed it, but he posted nothing of the farcical appearance of EPN in Tepalcatepec the other day, where the original leaders (not just Mireles) of the autodefensas movement were not in attendance. In his speech, Peña Nieto declared Michoacan to be safe for people to visit while being watched over by a HUGE security force including helicopters and snipers on the rooftops. Something reminiscent of the heyday of PRI presidents like Lopez Portillo.

For the readers who object to pedro's criticisms, instead of attempting to remove him from the discussion, they can simply stop reading his posts if they aren{t interested in what he has to say..

Jeff Raybourne wrote:Why does there need to be a new thread? Is open discussion prohibited under the forum rules?

Smartalex has an agenda and posts only links and info that supports his position. There isn't one gram of objectivity in his posts. For example, I may have missed it, but he posted nothing of the farcical appearance of EPN in Tepalcatepec the other day, where the original leaders (not just Mireles) of the autodefensas movement were not in attendance. In his speech, Peña Nieto declared Michoacan to be safe for people to visit while being watched over by a HUGE security force including helicopters and snipers on the rooftops. Something reminiscent of the heyday of PRI presidents like Lopez Portillo.

For the readers who object to pedro's criticisms, instead of attempting to remove him from the discussion, they can simply stop reading his posts if they aren{t interested in what he has to say..

That's what I do.

Jeff Raybourne wrote:
Smartalex has an agenda and posts only links and info that supports his position. There isn't one gram of objectivity in his posts. For example, I may have missed it, but he posted nothing of the farcical appearance of EPN in Tepalcatepec the other day, where the original leaders (not just Mireles) of the autodefensas movement were not in attendance. In his speech, Peña Nieto declared Michoacan to be safe for people to visit while being watched over by a HUGE security force including helicopters and snipers on the rooftops. Something reminiscent of the heyday of PRI presidents like Lopez Portillo.

I didn't think Mr. Pena's photo op in Tepalcatepec was particularly newsworthy or of much interest to the readers here. However, Mr. Mireles' description of the the event was covered in the link to the El Universal story about his rejection from the Fuerza Rural. Here's an excerpt from the El Universal article...

El líder de los grupos de autodefensa en Tepalcatepec, lugar que nunca había recibido la visita de un Presidente de la República, aseguró que estando parado afuera de donde fue el evento, "solo miré puros acarreados de otros lugares y soldados vestidos de civiles. Con eso llenaron el evento".

"Es simbólico que el Presidente Peña Nieto venga a la tierra de Mireles, sin llamar a Mireles", ironizó.

In English, Mr. Mireles is quoted as saying that all he saw were people trucked in from other locations and soldiers dressed as civilians. He also quipped, "It is symbolic that el Presidente Pena Nieto comes to the land of Mireles without calling Mireles."

So yeah...I guess you missed it.

who is mr. mireles. i know of only a doctor mireles. i also don't know a mr. pena but i do know of presidente pena,president of mexico. do you call president obama,mister?. why do you have so much trouble showing respect to certain mexican people? why would pn meet with doctor mireles, in any event. that's a no brainer. since jeffy is a citizen i will let him go in to detail if he cares to do so. and who are you to decide what the readers here would find interesting?

I'd explain the rules of polite journalism to Pedro...but I prefer to just let him continue to make an ass of himself.

It is one thing to have a discussion such as this one using facts and, hopefully, providing sources. It is another thing to whine, snivel, complain, call out names and insults at a poster because you disagree with him.
For the most part, Jeff participates with SmartAlex in the former. All too often, little Repete follows up with the latter while hanging tightly to Jeff’s more erudite coattails.
When it becomes tiresome, it is best to block Repete´s posts and enjoy the adult conversation. As long as he is not violating board rules he has a right to jump up and down and act how he wishes. Other posters can block him or read him as it suits them.

I didn't miss a damn thing.  You didn't think the President's visit to Tepalcatepec was of much interest to the readers? Ridiculous and an outright lie. In your so-called past endeavor as a journalist, were you employed as a spin doctor for Faux News? The President visits the cradle of the insurrection and the autodefensas aren't invited? That isn't of interest?

Again, you offer your opinion on the event by selectively editing the report of the event. If you were in the least bit objective you would have told your sheep, er, readers that the meeting excluded not only Mireles but all autodefensas. And he wasn't the only one that made negative comments. Your above post is just as farcical as the EPN staged event.

The news was covered extensively by all sides of the media. And it just so happens that they all reported that it was considered a farce and that the people attending the event were beneficiaries of other federal programs.

From El Economista http://eleconomista.com.mx/sociedad/2014/05/22/autodefensas-denuncian-acarreados-evento-epn-michoacan (a conservative source you have cited):

"En el evento que se llevó a cabo para instalar la Comisión Cuenca Tierra Caliente-Conagua y entregar vehículos para la salud, encabezado por el ex gobernador del estado de México, los integrantes del grupo civil armado manifestaron que gente de logística de la presidencia de la República sacó del evento a varios de los líderes de las autodefensas, los cuales fueron sustituidos por gente que fue acarreada."

“Evento de Peña Nieto se convierte en una farsa, el público es traído por él y algunos de los líderes que pudieron entrar fueron sacados para no decir la verdad ante las cámaras. El poco público real de Tepalcatepec comienza a salir del evento por ser un teatro montado de personas que no pertenecen al municipio. Varios líderes fueron sacados y personas leales a ellos se están saliendo del evento”, detalló la Policía Comunitaria de Tepalcatepec.

And to be fair and balanced a link to an opinion in the far left La Jornada

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2014/05/23/opinion/004o1pol

So again, EPN visits the town where the proverbial shit hit the fan and the purpose of his visit was to promote federal projects in the area? Anyone that can't see the farse in that is blind.

Smartalex wrote:I'd explain the rules of polite journalism to Pedro...but I prefer to just let him continue to make an ass of himself.

Polite journalism? None of us here are practicing journalism of any nature. It is only a bunch of amateurs on a web board slinging out opinions. Maybe you were thinking of polite debate. Something that rarely exists in discussing politics. We aren't talking about Barry Bonds vs Babe Ruth.

it appears jeffy's extensive post has merely corroborated what i spoke to briefly in mine. he can do this because he is a citizen and i am not and therefore will attempt not to get into mexican politics other than observations.
as to journalism. who claims to be or have been one and what qualifies an alleged retired us sports journalist to play columnist about mexican politics in michoacan? can't even get titles straight. never in spanish nor english have i seen the 2 main protagonists[as mentioned before] referred to as mister.

Did anyone see Kevin Spacey's selfie with EPN?After he was criticized for it he tweeted "I know jack about Mexican politics."
IMHO, Mireles and EPN are both assholes,but they're not in the same league,one's a bush league asshole and the other's a major league asshole.

Jeff Raybourne wrote:I didn't miss a damn thing.  You didn't think the President's visit to Tepalcatepec was of much interest to the readers? Ridiculous and an outright lie. In your so-called past endeavor as a journalist, were you employed as a spin doctor for Faux News? The President visits the cradle of the insurrection and the autodefensas aren't invited? That isn't of interest?

Again, you offer your opinion on the event by selectively editing the report of the event. If you were in the least bit objective you would have told your sheep, er, readers that the meeting excluded not only Mireles but all autodefensas. And he wasn't the only one that made negative comments. Your above post is just as farcical as the EPN staged event.

The news was covered extensively by all sides of the media. And it just so happens that they all reported that it was considered a farce and that the people attending the event were beneficiaries of other federal programs.

From El Economista http://eleconomista.com.mx/sociedad/2014/05/22/autodefensas-denuncian-acarreados-evento-epn-michoacan (a conservative source you have cited):

"En el evento que se llevó a cabo para instalar la Comisión Cuenca Tierra Caliente-Conagua y entregar vehículos para la salud, encabezado por el ex gobernador del estado de México, los integrantes del grupo civil armado manifestaron que gente de logística de la presidencia de la República sacó del evento a varios de los líderes de las autodefensas, los cuales fueron sustituidos por gente que fue acarreada."

“Evento de Peña Nieto se convierte en una farsa, el público es traído por él y algunos de los líderes que pudieron entrar fueron sacados para no decir la verdad ante las cámaras. El poco público real de Tepalcatepec comienza a salir del evento por ser un teatro montado de personas que no pertenecen al municipio. Varios líderes fueron sacados y personas leales a ellos se están saliendo del evento”, detalló la Policía Comunitaria de Tepalcatepec.

And to be fair and balanced a link to an opinion in the far left La Jornada

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2014/05/23/opinion/004o1pol

So again, EPN visits the town where the proverbial shit hit the fan and the purpose of his visit was to promote federal projects in the area? Anyone that can't see the farse in that is blind.

This was covered in the El Universal article which was posted here as a link on May 22. In fact, the El Universal article was an interview with Mr. Mireles and told his side of this story in his own words. If you felt this information from El Economista was pertinent to the conversation here, why didn't you just post a link to the article? That might have been helpful to this discussion. Hell...I wouldn't even have objected to a personal comment on your part.

As usual, you dwell solely on Mireles part in this whole scenario instead of objectively posting the whole story. Maybe benefits your side of the story but doesn't  do the rest of the readers any good.

The story in El Universal basically covers his part in not joining the rural force and little to do with EPN's visit, with a small mention that the other leaders were also excluded. No mention about the seeding the crowd with people other than the autodefensas and except for a brief acknowledgement, for the most part ignoring the movement. And to act like it was a story on the visit is BS. Until I posted links, I'd be willing to bet you really weren't aware of what went on at EPN's appearance.


BTW, what is happening with the killings at the check point at the first part of May? I haven't seen much more about Mireles being charged. Nor El Platano for that matter. In your opinion, you already had them convicted. Mora also was released for lack of evidence. Do you really believe the government is acting in good faith throughout all of this? What about the accusations of ties between some of the leadership of the autodefensas and other rival cartels? With all of the resources the government enjoys, can't CISEN or the intelligence services of the military tie them together?

So far the vast majority of your accusations have not reflected reality.

You're a rather inquisitive fellow aren't you, Jeff Raybourne? Before I respond to your queries, I expect a response to mine. I asked you why you didn't just post a link to the La Economista article if you felt it was pertinent to this discussion.

Smartalex wrote:You're a rather inquisitive fellow aren't you, Jeff Raybourne? Before I respond to your queries, I expect a response to mine. I asked you why you didn't just post a link to the La Economista article if you felt it was pertinent to this discussion.

I don't really understand the question. I post what I feel like posting, the same as you. Why do we need to explain why? Why don't you just post links that are pertinent?  Why must you add untold quantities of very subjective personal opinion that frequently have nothing to do with fact. Like saying BB wouldn't post a photo of Mireles with the dead guy as an example. I mean, come on, dude. You pulled that one straight out of your culo.

Now, how about answering my questions and forget the lame attempts at dodging them.

Well...thanks for the non-answer to my question. All the questions you pose have been discussed in the material in the links provided. If you'd like to discuss them one at time, I guess I could do that.