Templarios

Jeff Raybourne wrote:

Smartalex wrote:

Jeff Raybourne wrote:So which source are you most in agreement with?

I'll take number two and guess that you're a number three man.

I've read Proceso for many years and they are usually on the mark. Curiously, you tend to be quite liberal when it comes to many social issues but in this case your thinking is in line with a newspaper belonging to the far right here.

So what?

Would you find it curious if someone that voted for Obama suddenly agreed with Glen Beck?

Jeff Raybourne wrote:Would you find it curious if someone that voted for Obama suddenly agreed with Glen Beck?

Depends on the issue.

Smartalex wrote:

Jeff Raybourne wrote:Would you find it curious if someone that voted for Obama suddenly agreed with Glen Beck?

Depends on the issue.

Sure.

Jeff Raybourne wrote:Just want to say that Google translate is next to worthless.

it's not too bad actually but a better translation for number 3 is on borderland beat today. i go with that one[#3] as well. the other 2 are merely part of the gummint strategy to discredit mireles for obvious reasons.

Former Autodefensas leader Hipolito Mora, who has been sitting in prison for two months on charges of murder, rape, kidnapping, extortion and theft, has been released from prison due to lack of evidence. From Animal Politico...

Sale libre Hipólito Mora; se integrará a la policía rural

http://www.animalpolitico.com/2014/05/hipolito-mora-saldra-libre-le-revocan-auto-de-formal-prision/#axzz31wVTxyBu

Google Translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.animalpolitico.com%2F2014%2F05%2Fhipolito-mora-saldra-libre-le-revocan-auto-de-formal-prision%2F%23axzz31wVTxyBu

what a surprse

Smartalex wrote:Former Autodefensas leader Hipolito Mora, who has been sitting in prison for two months on charges of murder, rape, kidnapping, extortion and theft, has been released from prison due to lack of evidence. From Animal Politico...

Sale libre Hipólito Mora; se integrará a la policía rural

http://www.animalpolitico.com/2014/05/hipolito-mora-saldra-libre-le-revocan-auto-de-formal-prision/#axzz31wVTxyBu

Google Translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.animalpolitico.com%2F2014%2F05%2Fhipolito-mora-saldra-libre-le-revocan-auto-de-formal-prision%2F%23axzz31wVTxyBu

I try to avoid commenting on anything you post because it is such a waste of time.... but really? He was not in prison with charges that you list. He was charged with being involved with planning the murder of several men. There was never any credible evidence and there are no pending charges of rape, extortion or theft, though there is an investigation regarding his involvement in something like unlawful confinement.

I feel confident anyone who is really interested is going to read for themselves what is going on, will know it is complicated and that much of the press is biased one way or the other.

I don't see the distinction between "planning the murder of several men" and actually doing the deed yourself. I don't think the law makes that distinction either...it's still murder. Did you really mean to say several men? He was only indicted for the murders of two. Several usually indicates more than two. You may want to be more careful in how you word your posts around here. Someone might accuse you of distorting the facts to make Mr. Mora look worse than he really is.

A "charge" could mean a legal indictment or an allegation. Perhaps I should have been more clear and stated that Mr. Mora was indicted for murder and being investigated for allegations of rape, kidnapping, extortion and theft. If this was unclear or confusing, then Smartalex regrets the error.

I have no details about the allegations of rape, kidnapping and extortion. However, the theft charges deal with Mr. Mora keeping land that was confiscated from Templarios for his own personal use and not returning it to its rightful owners. In addition, there is the question of how El Chayo's fancy horses wound up in Mr. Mora's corral.

You claim Mr. Mora is being investigated for "something like unlawful confinement." Is this somehow different from "kidnapping?"

I will certainly agree that the Mexican press is "biased one way or the other." I would also add that the Mexican press is short on both details and followup. My own bias is clear...I'm not a big fan of any of these actors. However, I support the government in its effort to restore civil society and the rule of law in Michoacan since the alternatives are intolerable.

you just wasted your time,confused. as you can see by the response of our self proclaimed expert in these matters. i'm gonna leave any written alternative view of substance up to jeffy since i wish to remain in this country. plus i don't have the analytical skills of an award winning sports journalist.
sure would be interesting to see an actual list of the "actors" he is not in favour of.
by the way,notsosmartalex, which part of -mora was released for lack of evidence-do you not understand?

Smartalex wrote:..I'm not a big fan of any of these actors. However, I support the government in its effort to restore civil society and the rule of law in Michoacan since the alternatives are intolerable.

What exactly is the government's effort in restoring civil society? They have had years to deal with the problem and have either been complicit in the collapse of civil society or comepletely inept at enforcing the law. Probably both. Calderon did jack shit, in 6 years. EPN has proved completely useless and whose grand strategy is to dump the problem off on the state (and the state goverment, as we all know, is just a proxy for organixed crime) with the ridiculous creation of a poorly trained, poorly organized and unvetted rural police force.

The situation became intolerable long before the autodefensas came on the scene. This whole mess is the government's creation and now they are looking for something similar to Nixon's "peace with honor" way out.

dude, you really need to eliminate the "smart" from your username.

These comments remind me that, with such a colorful cast of characters at play here, I mostly overlook the slow, boring and methodical job our government is doing day by day in order to put an end to public corruption in Michoacan. In addition to this timely story about the detention of three police chiefs, the government has recently dismissed 110 investigators from the MP's office and an additional 1200 municipal police officers, all of whom failed their tests to determine fitness for duty. From Informador...

Suman tres mandos policiacos detenidos en Michoacán

http://www.informador.com.mx/mexico/2014/528464/6/suman-tres-mandos-policiacos-detenidos-en-michoacan.htm

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informador.com.mx%2Fmexico%2F2014%2F528464%2F6%2Fsuman-tres-mandos-policiacos-detenidos-en-michoacan.htm

Smartalex wrote:These comments remind me that, with such a colorful cast of characters at play here, I mostly overlook the slow, boring and methodical job our government is doing day by day in order to put an end to public corruption in Michoacan.

Golly - I am missing a lot.........and obviously have very very different news sources.  That is, in many cases, I have read, there is no change.  But maybe I misunderstand - with the "our" government stuff - maybe the American or Canadian government is trying to help..

So let me see - I think most new sources are trying to keep the narcos and government happy - so that stuff being published may not be real news.  So the real news would need to come from the man on the street.  Maybe better, the women on the street.  It is fantastic that the women on the street in Michoacan feel that public corruption is coming to an end.  Opps - maybe they weren't asked.

Here is one interesting source published last year on my list to read - for a bigger picture - instead of the published detail of the moment which may or may not have something to do with reality

- http://www.amazon.com/Narcoland-Mexican-Lords-Their-Godfathers-ebook/dp/B00BVJFN3S/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

Smartalex wrote:These comments remind me that, with such a colorful cast of characters at play here, I mostly overlook the slow, boring and methodical job our government is doing day by day in order to put an end to public corruption in Michoacan. In addition to this timely story about the detention of three police chiefs, the government has recently dismissed 110 investigators from the MP's office and an additional 1200 municipal police officers, all of whom failed their tests to determine fitness for duty. From Informador...

Suman tres mandos policiacos detenidos en Michoacán

http://www.informador.com.mx/mexico/2014/528464/6/suman-tres-mandos-policiacos-detenidos-en-michoacan.htm

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informador.com.mx%2Fmexico%2F2014%2F528464%2F6%2Fsuman-tres-mandos-policiacos-detenidos-en-michoacan.htm

I have lived in this country for a very long time and have seen this same scenario of revamping law enforcement agencies, arresting government officials due to corruption than I can remember. Whoop-de-fucking do!!!! Where the hell is the AFI these days is a recent example. We're all anxiously awaiting the new Mando Uníco here in Jalisco to slow organized crime. Es el cuento de nunca acabar.

And EPN's appointment of Romero Deschamps as a senador plurinominal is a great example of the slow, boring and methodical dedication to ending government corruption. BAM!! Right from the very beginning he gave the country the middle finger.

You may be qualified to write a high school book report on the history of this country but your real knowledge of its (especially recent) past is quite limited. A shallow grasp of the past limits your perspective.

it is becoming increasingly apparent that he has a shallow grasp of the present as well.

Interesting logic being expressed here. How can any rational person find the government at fault for having arrested El Chapo Guzman, destroyed the leadership of the Templarios and prosecuted corrupt public officials...including corrupt public officials from their own party?

There actually is a rational argument to be made here...but none of these people are up to the task. From Insight Crime...

Security Successes Don't Add Up to Popularity for Mexico President

http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/security-successes-dont-add-up-to-popularity-for-mexico-president

Smartalex wrote:Interesting logic being expressed here. How can any rational person find the government at fault for having arrested El Chapo Guzman, destroyed the leadership of the Templarios and prosecuted corrupt public officials?

ahh - you are talking about the US Government - and I do agree they are makin progress in working with the mex gov

.

Jeff Raybourne wrote:Where the hell is the AFI these days is a recent example.

Not sure what you think you're trying to say here but I can tell you that the AFI (Federal Investigation Agency) was dissolved almost two years ago for being hopelessly corrupted by organized crime. Didn't you get the news? Still waiting for that face-to-face meeting between EPN and Mireles?

Smartalex wrote:

Jeff Raybourne wrote:Where the hell is the AFI these days is a recent example.

Not sure what you think you're trying to say here but I can tell you that the AFI (Federal Investigation Agency) was dissolved almost two years ago for being hopelessly corrupted by organized crime. Didn't you get the news? Still waiting for that face-to-face meeting between EPN and Mireles?

You are too fucking stupid to understand but for the benefit of other readers, I'll explain. AFI was created for the same reason it was replaced a  new law enforcement agency. Its predecessor had become hopelessly corrupted by organized crime and it was AFI to the rescue. Hence my mention of el cuento de nunca acabar which flew right over your head.

You pathetic attempts to discredit me with continually mentioning the meeting are falling on deaf ears.

Jeff Raybourne wrote: Es el cuento de nunca acabar.

It seems to me that that applies to just about everything regarding politics in Mexico whether it's pri or pan,why do you suppose that is,complacency or resignation on the part of Mexicans?Maybe there is something to that old quote, "people get the government they deserve".

Smartalex wrote:Interesting logic being expressed here. How can any rational person find the government at fault for having arrested El Chapo Guzman, destroyed the leadership of the Templarios and prosecuted corrupt public officials...including corrupt public officials from their own party?

who was at the forefront of destroying the leadership of the templarios-SNORK! and i would suggest to you that the head of the snake is still out there. i thought we were discussing michoacan here-your smokescreen about the other shit is irrelevant and so is another one of yer yanqui media cut and pastes.
tell us again about your sports journalistic awards. strange i could not find you in a google search

Mad_Max wrote:

Smartalex wrote:Interesting logic being expressed here. How can any rational person find the government at fault for having arrested El Chapo Guzman, destroyed the leadership of the Templarios and prosecuted corrupt public officials?

ahh - you are talking about the US Government - and I do agree they are makin progress in working with the mex gov

A U.S. law enforcement official told CNN that Guzman, accompanied by a female, was captured in a joint operation of Mexican marines and U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration agents that was in the works for four or five weeks

.

Max..You may want to add this to your reading list. From The New Yorker...

The Hunt for El Chapo

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/05/05/140505fa_fact_keefe?currentPage=all

And this. English translation of Anabel Hernandez' recent article from Proceso...

Mexico Drug War-Michoacán: Godfather of Godfathers

http://mexicovoices.blogspot.mx/2014/04/mexico-drug-war-michoacan-godfather-of.html

Smartalex wrote:There actually is a rational argument to be made here...but none of these people are up to the task. From Insight Crime...

Security Successes Don't Add Up to Popularity for Mexico President

http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/security-successes-dont-add-up-to-popularity-for-mexico-president

Your geniuses at insightcrime would like to everyone to believe that insecurity is the only issue that fuels the popularity polls. There are a lot of other problems that contribute. Or will you try to argue that such issues as the economy, energy reform, unemployment and others don't count?

http://www.excelsior.com.mx/opinion/leo-zuckermann/2014/03/03/946572

And, if he sat on his hands on the security issue, his popularity may suffer even more. You need to get up to the task, reporterito.

Jeff Raybourne wrote:

Smartalex wrote:

Jeff Raybourne wrote:Where the hell is the AFI these days is a recent example.

Not sure what you think you're trying to say here but I can tell you that the AFI (Federal Investigation Agency) was dissolved almost two years ago for being hopelessly corrupted by organized crime. Didn't you get the news? Still waiting for that face-to-face meeting between EPN and Mireles?

You are too fucking stupid to understand but for the benefit of other readers, I'll explain. AFI was created for the same reason it was replaced a  new law enforcement agency. Its predecessor had become hopelessly corrupted by organized crime and it was AFI to the rescue. Hence my mention of el cuento de nunca acabar which flew right over your head.

You pathetic attempts to discredit me with continually mentioning the meeting are falling on deaf ears.

I really don't need to attempt to discredit you...since you are doing a fine job of just that all by yourself.

Smartalex wrote:

Jeff Raybourne wrote:

Smartalex wrote:

Jeff Raybourne wrote:Where the hell is the AFI these days is a recent example.

Not sure what you think you're trying to say here but I can tell you that the AFI (Federal Investigation Agency) was dissolved almost two years ago for being hopelessly corrupted by organized crime. Didn't you get the news? Still waiting for that face-to-face meeting between EPN and Mireles?

You are too fucking stupid to understand but for the benefit of other readers, I'll explain. AFI was created for the same reason it was replaced a  new law enforcement agency. Its predecessor had become hopelessly corrupted by organized crime and it was AFI to the rescue. Hence my mention of el cuento de nunca acabar which flew right over your head.

You pathetic attempts to discredit me with continually mentioning the meeting are falling on deaf ears.

I really don't need to attempt to discredit you...since you are doing a fine job of just that all by yourself.

Oh really? Then why do you constantly bring up the meeting? You continually show what a complete ignoramous you are. There was a time on this board that you appeared to be a poster of substance. Your idiocy on this thread has completely removed that illusion.