Love in Action

I don't think it is a big deal. Religion aside, I personally know Chapalagringa and would allow her to watch my children any day of the week. From what I have seen she is a awesome mother to her own children too.

I'm guessing your children are old enough to think for themselves and not fall prey to Chapalagringa's "message." If my kids were under 12 I'd not her near them. The Spanish thought the Mexicans needed to hear the "one true word" and they lost. Lori should catch a clue.

WHERE's The LUV ??

court0503 wrote: could there be anyone out there still thinking that 'Chapalagringa' et. al. having an inordinate influence over the nurturing and education of very vulnerable , at -risk children with no other adults in their corner, is really no big deal?

What are you going on about? Do you think Chapalagringa is from LiA? Do you even know her?

[quote="Chapalagringa"]

caguama wrote:Chapala gringa lady you are wrong. I am mexican catholic and yes i am a christian. you act like you invent jesus christ and we will all be ignorant if you do not tell us what is real ? Really you think we do not have freedom to read the bible?
You have ever been in a catholic church? We music with guitars and children sing, it is very joyful. and real

you need to learn the culture that you are in and if you cant then you dont need to say nothing about it. You embaras to yourself.

you are right about the one thing you say , " it sounds even offensive" is true. You need to have respect even here where you think mexicans dont read.

(QUOTE) One post. Yeah, I've sang on Radio Maria, you didn't read my previous post of Catholic events I was invited to minister at? And you can't verify the difference between Catholic and Charismatic Catholic? I seriously doubt you're who you say you are and read this board but have fun posting. I've been around awhile. lol Sounds like someone from another board was lonely tonight.(QUOTE



Yes I made effort to read your post about singing and ministering with catolicos carismaticos but the post is long and boring so maybe I did not read all. Because i do not know them I did searched google for an explanacion of catolicos carismaticos or evangelical catholics as they are also called, . I can see the difference of course , and why you fit with that group . I also now have a good comprehension of why my american friends are afraid for you and those like you to influence the children at amour en accion . with reason.

You doubt I read this board? you doubt I am Mexican ? A Catholic? I doubt you are christian.

Usted lo que necesita es cerrar la boca y abrir el mente.

Aprendiendo a respetar es la unica manera de transender.


Muchas gracias a todos los que me han dado la bienvenida a el web board !

It takes me forever to write this, I am not a typer. Jaja!

OMG, I do believe Caguama is a troll.
I have just tried to engage a TROLL in a conversation!
Obviously I am up way past my bedtime. Good night.

lol yes, traveller, you're very perseptive...very typical behavior when a thread has run it's course, isn't locked & dying painfully slow. Thanks to our two new posters for all the effort to make me laugh tonight and for CBob & hocks, group hug. lol please lock the thread!!!

Chapalagringa:
You and I have talked before and I respect your beliefs.

What is concerning me is that the missionaries at LiA are attempting to convert young children away from the religion into which they were born.

That is disgusting. As informed adults they might want to change their religion but as children they have absolutely no idea of what they want to be religion wise. It is not up to us, as adults not connected with their family, to try to indoctrinate a new religion upon these unfortunate children. Our obligation is to make sure they are adequately provided for and that is our only concern.

Religion is no-one's concern

Let's look after the children, forget the religion. In the overall picture it is not that important but don't try to change it.

David wrote:I'm guessing your children are old enough to think for themselves and not fall prey to Chapalagringa's "message." If my kids were under 12 I'd not her near them. The Spanish thought the Mexicans needed to hear the "one true word" and they lost. Lori should catch a clue.

Well to be honest I would rather have someone teach my kids about some sort of religion versus some of the things I see/hear these NOB rednecks teaching their little kids. Things like "beauty pageants" for 4 year old girls, teaching your 3 year old to fire guns, etc., etc. Just watch some of the crap on these reality TV shows. Just disgusting.

BTW.......what is the difference between Catholicism and this Christianity that everyone is worried about? I have no idea but would like to learn.

Traveller wrote:OMG, I do believe Caguama is a troll.
I have just tried to engage a TROLL in a conversation!
Obviously I am up way past my bedtime. Good night.

Caguama is not a troll. Read more closely, Caguama is explaining how things really are and why the missionary effort is offensive to Mexican Catholics (who also happen to be Christians). It is common in non-English countries to call Catholics Catholics and Protestants Christians. That does not mean that the pope isn't Catholic.

CanuckBob wrote:

David wrote:I'm guessing your children are old enough to think for themselves and not fall prey to Chapalagringa's "message." If my kids were under 12 I'd not her near them. The Spanish thought the Mexicans needed to hear the "one true word" and they lost. Lori should catch a clue.

Well to be honest I would rather have someone teach my kids about some sort of religion versus some of the things I see/hear these NOB rednecks teaching their little kids. Things like "beauty pageants" for 4 year old girls, teaching your 3 year old to fire guns, etc., etc. Just watch some of the crap on these reality TV shows. Just disgusting.

BTW.......what is the difference between Catholicism and this Christianity that everyone is worried about? I have no idea but would like to learn.

I agree with you. Who cares about the terminology of Catholics and Christians?

I have an indigenous friend in Chiapas who has a different view of the missionaries. He says the government let them in so they can start new sects all over the place and keep the indigenous fighting between themselves so they will not unite and fight the government.

He may have a point. Down there it is nasty Traditional Catholics fighting Roman Catholics fighting Protestants of all persuasions and we also have Moslems. The Moslems are quiet so far but there are not many yet and have not spread outside of their barrio , wait until they get into the action. It is an ugly picture and a great deterrent against any religion.

northernguy wrote:

CanuckBob wrote:

David wrote:I'm guessing your children are old enough to think for themselves and not fall prey to Chapalagringa's "message." If my kids were under 12 I'd not her near them. The Spanish thought the Mexicans needed to hear the "one true word" and they lost. Lori should catch a clue.

Well to be honest I would rather have someone teach my kids about some sort of religion versus some of the things I see/hear these NOB rednecks teaching their little kids. Things like "beauty pageants" for 4 year old girls, teaching your 3 year old to fire guns, etc., etc. Just watch some of the crap on these reality TV shows. Just disgusting.

BTW.......what is the difference between Catholicism and this Christianity that everyone is worried about? I have no idea but would like to learn.

I agree with you. Who cares about the terminology of Catholics and Christians?

Why do these people tell me 'troll"? Now I am a cave man?

To most people it is not important because this is a personal choice how you experience your religion.

I care because I feel insult when someone tells me I am not a christian unless I am born again, a thing that catholics do not do.

The evangelical catholics are considered to be radicals and they do born again, speak in toungs, wave their arms in the air and like that, but the chapala gringa accept them as christian it seems like.

The born again christians or also called evangelicals care because they believe that a person can not be a christian until they have been saved or born again and this is the ONLY way you can go to heaven. Their way is the only way because this is their interpretacion of scripture and they do not acept that other people have a different interpretation. It is their way or no way and they must be active in trying to convert people so they also will be "saved" and be a true christian. This is some of the problem people worry for amor en accion. It is not a need to be secular and does not need to be a choice either this or beauty contests or guns.

Chapalagringa wrote:lol yes, traveller, you're very perseptive...very typical behavior when a thread has run it's course, isn't locked & dying painfully slow. Thanks to our two new posters for all the effort to make me laugh tonight and for CBob & hocks, group hug. lol please lock the thread!!!

This isn't any effort to make you laugh.

Now that you have raved and ranted incessantly in your evangelical pontification, you want the thread locked.
The only thing painful for me, and I'm sure some others following this thread, are your posts.
But have at it, in the name of free speech,....... hopefully your posting has "run it's course".

IMHO...So far, the most sensible and informative posts, have been made by David.

Guess what, Lori............the Mods decide when to close the thread, and that's as it should be. You're had your turn at the pulpit. When the mod is sick of hearing this, trust me.....it will end.


Now, I'd like to pontificate about the nitpicking and then I'll shut my mouth voluntarily.

NOB, people differentiated the denomination of Christianity they followed, and if you asked, they would say they were Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, or Catholic, etc. No cultural lesson needed to know they do that in Mexico, too. If you asked a Mexican about his religion and he answered "Catholic", you could badger the poor soul and do the "but are you a Christian?" and totally confuse him. Of course they're a Christian.
Guess who founded the oldest Christian church, fer Peter's sake? lol. Is the Pope Catholic? Ah, but is he a Christian? HUH? It's a ploy to start the evangelical's routine, and the games begin. Most Mexicans haven't had the advantage of studying any religion in depth for years, so they aren't going to argue like a Jesuit. The game is rigged.

Sometime around the sixties, the "Born Again" movement arose and suddenly, nobody was a true Christian except them. Everything else was a "cult". Their evangelical fervor and downright arrogance was born along with it.

I had the dubious joy of having a friend who rejected dope and embraced the biggest group of them in CA. I couldn't believe the prejudice I heard from her about other groups. We parted company when she informed me that all those other religions were "cults" and they wouldn't be "saved". She wanted her friends to be "saved" so they wouldn't go to hell. Bye, old friend. Life is way too short to listen to that. I didn't have any white supremacist friends either.

There are the notable exceptions of parents who teach their kids something about all the different religions and even take them to the different places of worship. What we mainly need to remember that most kids are being influenced by what their parents or caretakers themselves believe. It's just the nature of things, so I'm not condemning those folks at LIA for trying to influence those children. I would prefer they took care of their needs, tried to teach them ethical behavior and good citizenship and leave their personal religion out of it, but it's not my fiefdom and I have no say in the matter. Too bad they can't find harmony amongst themselves.

What I do object to is their leaders claiming their form of Christianity is the only one that counts. That's just arrogant and untrue. That often separates them from their parents' beliefs as well as that of the larger community. IMO, failing to teach respect for the beliefs of others is not in their best interest. What are they going to think when they meet a Jew, or a Buddhist? That they're "better than" or "holier than"?

It's a big world out there. and they are going to encounter others whose minds are formatted differently. They will need to work with them and do business with them, even marry into their families.

Respect is different from shared belief and is probably the most important factor in finding peace in your community, let alone the entire world.

Did you read my mind? I was raised exactly the same way in which you described. Responsible parents should do the same, my wife and I did. Personally I believe "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" plus " judge not lest you be judged" should there be a heaven I guess I'll be there.

Good job, Gringal! Good job.

It's pointless to try to have an intelligent discourse with people who believe that the universe was created by god in 7 days 5000 years ago and who also believe that if you don't accept their fairy tale version of the way things are that you will be condemned to hell for eternity,frankly my version of hell would be having to spend eternity with a bunch religious fanatics of any stripe.

I don't want to sound like a broken record here. But great job, Gringal.

It was beautifully written and expresses exactly how I feel.

ferret wrote:

viajero wrote:It's pointless to try to have an intelligent discourse with people who believe that the universe was created by god in 7 days 5000 years ago and who also believe that if you don't accept their fairy tale version of the way things are that you will be condemned to hell for eternity,frankly my version of hell would be having to spend eternity with a bunch religious fanatics of any stripe.

Does that mean that we're already in hell Viajero?

More like purgatory.

So is there an Evangelical church here in the Chapala area? Do they do the laying on hands healing, speaking in tongues, shouting ,fainting , jerking around on the floor and such? I have seen it on T.V. and that's pretty much what was going on, but maybe they don't all do that...

CanuckBob wrote:

David wrote:I'm guessing your children are old enough to think for themselves and not fall prey to Chapalagringa's "message." If my kids were under 12 I'd not her near them. The Spanish thought the Mexicans needed to hear the "one true word" and they lost. Lori should catch a clue.

Well to be honest I would rather have someone teach my kids about some sort of religion versus some of the things I see/hear these NOB rednecks teaching their little kids. Things like "beauty pageants" for 4 year old girls, teaching your 3 year old to fire guns, etc., etc. Just watch some of the crap on these reality TV shows. Just disgusting.

BTW.......what is the difference between Catholicism and this Christianity that everyone is worried about? I have no idea but would like to learn.

The Catholics will assimilate the culture around them. Since the USA was a Christian nation, the USA Catholics are Christians. Mexico is a nation of different indian tribes which religions are assimilated into the Catholic religion.

What I do object to is their leaders claiming their form of Christianity is the only one that counts. That's just arrogant and untrue. That often separates them from their parents' beliefs as well as that of the larger community. IMO, failing to teach respect for the beliefs of others is not in their best interest. What are they going to think when they meet a Jew, or a Buddhist? That they're "better than" or "holier than"?

Yes gringal, you are correct,

Matthew 10:30-37
New International Version (NIV)

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[a]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Is this what bothers you?

gringal, there are other religions that say theirs is the only way. Are they just as arrogant and untrue? Why would you assume that the folks at LiA wouldn't teach the children to love everyone, regardless of religious background?

Present what you know and let the individual decide for themselves. You have had it all presented to you and I respect your decision, it's yours to make. I am not your judge. I've never known Anabel to do anything other than presenting the love of God. She nor anyone else could ever decide for any child or adult what faith they become. We do not practice that a child's faith is pre decided as a child. It's a personal decision. Why do people assume that people who claim to be a Christian, but didn't act anything like Christ are really a Christian?

Just out of curiosity who here believe in people being possessed by evil spirits which require church sanctioned exorcisms?

From the behavior of some of US on this forum, maybe it is time for CB to add an Exorcism Section?