Newbie here

Rella wrote:Thank you all for the great responses!! Walls and bars really don't bother me, I think I could get used to them. I plan on renting til I find a place the suits me for the long haul. No interest in being a snow bird either....had enough snow to last me a lifetime!!!

I am looking for some place that will fulfill my needs for a big change in my life...but still be able to get some of the things I am accustomed to here in the states....like certain foods that I see you are able to get there.

Good thing I got lots of time and can learn much more about Mexico!!

Rella... We too are over shoveling snow. That's how come we're snowbirds... we go south in the winter. Lizzy

Anyone who suggests that there is a: one size fits all or one size fits a majority method to learn a foreign language is not only fooling themselves but also misleading others since a person's ability to learn a new language has far too many variables!

As one who spoke Chinese before English (according to others but I don't remember since I was far too young) and was self taught fluent in Japanese (read, write and speak) - I couldn't learn Spanish in middle school or French in high school because the teaching methods didn't work for me. I have tried a number of Spanish teaching systems since we became so interested in Mexico and none have worked with any degree of success. At this point, I have concluded that the only possible method of working for me is daily use where I am forced to learn through constant usage. But I may be too much of an antique for that to work?

"daily use where I am forced to learn through constant usage"...BINGO!

TALK to everyone about anything and, PLEASE, don't be afraid to make mistakes. Learn to laugh at yourself. Thank people for corrections.
It's a process.
Learning from Warren Hardy flashcards is about as exciting as multiplication tables. IMHO.

Everyone learns differently, for me I learned by many years of traveling in this country, followed by dabbling in classes and books and tapes until I was so sick of myself and my pitiful ability to speak the language that I enrolled in a Community College program. There I was forced into learning by homework, memorization, class participation, extensive grammar, grading, and testing. That is also where it all came together for me! Then I moved here and found I could hardly converse with my gardener but I could sure conjugate verbs.

Take some kind of formal classes from an instructor that you feel comfortable with. Get the basics down then go out and. . .talk. Remember how we learned our native language as a child? We learned by acquisition.

Ferret and CG are right. TALK to everyone!

CheenaGringo wrote:Anyone who suggests that there is a: one size fits all or one size fits a majority method to learn a foreign language is not only fooling themselves but also misleading others since a person's ability to learn a new language has far too many variables!

As one who spoke Chinese before English (according to others but I don't remember since I was far too young) and was self taught fluent in Japanese (read, write and speak) - I couldn't learn Spanish in middle school or French in high school because the teaching methods didn't work for me. I have tried a number of Spanish teaching systems since we became so interested in Mexico and none have worked with any degree of success. At this point, I have concluded that the only possible method of working for me is daily use where I am forced to learn through constant usage. But I may be too much of an antique for that to work?

Have you tried the Warren Hardy Course?

It was apparently made by a gringo to teach all the people that came from the US to work in Mexico. More conversational and a lot easier to learn. Has nothing to do with how Spanish and French are taught in school.

And there actualy is only one way to learn a second language. It is called practice. Practice everyday. I am not fluent, but I sure can get a beer and a taco any time of the day. LOL

There are a number of life styles available here, ranging from walking-centered village living with varying levels of expat/Mexican populations all the way to some gated communities with all the amenities but requiring frequent use of the car like NOB.

We decided on the former after looking at both. Both hillside fracc and village living had many things that we found appealing. For example, many of the hillside fracs have truly stunning lakeside views. To see the lake from our home in Ajijic village, we have to use our rooftop mirador. OTOH, we can walk to literally everything in a few minutes from our front door. For us, that ability was more important than the great views. We were lucky to find a home with a high level of attention to security, an important feature in the villages or non-secured fraccs.

As for learning Spanish, we found Hardy great for grammar but as someone pointed out, not so great for talking to the gardener and/or maid. Now we're working on a more conversation based program. The Hardy program gave us a real leg up because of the strong grammar foundation. Our new program includes group "immersion" evenings where only Spanish is spoken and the teacher is there to coach.

For us, the tough part is building sufficient vocabulary to actually be understood. Also, hearing Spanish particularly for me (hearing impaired) is a lot tougher than speaking it.

For us, learning Spanish is a great way to keep the brain cells active and it is also fun and satisfying as our ability slowly grows. You can learn a language at the age of 70, you just don't learn it real fast.

Rella, if you have plenty of time, then you are ahead of the game.
There are several things that make Lakeside very appealing to a retiree.
1. Climate is absolutely great. Very moderate temperature year-round. Good for outdoor activities.
2. Large Expat Community - When you are retired if you want to be able to do things with others, this is the place. Most that I have met are great and very friendly.
3. Cost of living - Can't speak for where you might be coming from, but most of us are experiencing a 40 - 50% lower cost of living than NOB.
4. Access & Infrastructure - Less than 30 minutes from an international airport, 45 minutes to Guadalajara for shopping and all the NOB conveniences. Hard to beat that.
5. Plenty of Activities - All depends on what you want, but access to golf, kayaking, volleyball, day trips, activities at LCS, not to mention all the cultural activities of the local Mexican fiestas. You can be as busy, or not busy, as you want, and that is very nice.

We're newbies, going on our 15th month, moving to our 2nd rental, and speak very little Spanish, but are working on it. My advice, come on down for a visit a couple times. Stay a couple weeks or a month and see what you think. It's a great place and people are very friendly.

Rella, My wife and I moved to the lakeside six months ago. We moved here because of the low cost of living. Basically, we live on social security and our expenses are low enough that we are saving about half of our social security payments each month. We researched this area very carefully before moving here. All of the research said this would be the place for us. We were pleasantly surprised to find that the reality was far better than the research indicated. The low cost and the climate is what brought us here. The joy of life that we see around us each day is the bonus that makes every day here special. If you do decide to live here, I predict that you will enjoy it more than you can imagine.

Nice post Charliej,I couldn't agree more.

Charliej wrote:Rella, My wife and I moved to the lakeside six months ago. We moved here because of the low cost of living. Basically, we live on social security and our expenses are low enough that we are saving about half of our social security payments each month. We researched this area very carefully before moving here. All of the research said this would be the place for us. We were pleasantly surprised to find that the reality was far better than the research indicated. The low cost and the climate is what brought us here. The joy of life that we see around us each day is the bonus that makes every day here special. If you do decide to live here, I predict that you will enjoy it more than you can imagine.

Well said, my friend...and not just because you are a good Democrat.

After four years as a meteorological, economical and political refugee I can't imagine any other place I'd rather be!
Charliej has expressed the opinions of most of the people I know who are successful in retiring to lakeside.

"The low cost and the climate is what brought us here. The joy of life that we see around us each day is the bonus that makes every day here special."

Come check out lakeside. Smile, relax and enjoy!

GBATRUCKS wrote:

CanuckBob wrote:There are gated communities all over Guadalajara and throughout Mexico. It doesn't have anything to do with "gringos", it has to do with the haves vs the have nots.

C-Bob, In all due respect, "BOLLOCKS!" It is a matter of what kind of life style you want. Some come here wanting to drag their northern culture with them, to feel secure and comfortable surrounded by like-minded folks. Others of us are trying to escape from that consumer based shallow group-think mentality, and WANT to immerse into the Mexican culture. There are many of us who CHOOSE to live away from the "Gringo Gulch" of the Ajijic area even though, believe it or not, we actually could afford to live in the gated communities. We live in a Mexican neighborhood in Jocotepec, and would rather have multiple root canals then live behind the gates. PS: Hurry back..We miss your smiling face.

Just remember many of us Gringoes live in Ajijic with the mexicans.
In our neighborhood we have three gringo houses and about 30
mexican houses. So Ajijic is not just gated communities but mexican
neighborhoods just like Joco. I just want the original poster to know
that she can live in Ajijic in other than gated communities and choose
to live with Mexicans or live in a more gringo neighborhood. I have to
agree with you life behind the gates is not for me but I am glad they
are there for the folks who want them and it leaves more rentals in
Ajijic for me.

Z

I think it helps to see walled homes in a cultural/historical framework that is very different from the one you have inhabited most if not all of your life.

For example, as I recall, the Conquistadors came to Mexico from Southern Spain where families customarily built their homes within walls as was the Arab custom brought with the Arab conquerors from their homelands as they marched northward. The reasons for and benefits of the walled homes were myriad and did not represent a difference between the "haves" and "have nots."

This tradition was carried forward into Mexico so that the humblest to the most extravagant homes were and remain, with rare exception, enclosed by walls. Among the non-exhaustive benefits: your children, pets, and dementia-ridden grandmother can be kept safely inside; and, other people's cows, horses, and dogs can be kept out.

Let's not pass on misleading personal prejudices along with useful information to the newbies. They'll figure it all out once they live here a while.

GBAtrucks, in his post, is displaying a classic case of "reverse snobbery", which in my book is just like any other kind of snobbery.

As I have pointed out many times and in many places, people who emigrate from their native land to another country most often seek out a neighborhood with others of their own nationality. Check out any state NOB and you'll find the enclaves of Mexicans, Polish, Chinese, Italian and others.
People are often more comfortable in a foreign land when they are near some of the things that are familiar; language, lifestyle and food, etc.

In the case of entirely NOB gated enclaves, it may be a case of wanting to be with your own nationality and economic situation. In the various villages, there are no NOB enclaves.

As Zed pointed out, the neighborhoods are mixed. On my street, it's very mixed, both in terms of "haves" and "have nots" and in nationality. There are upscale homes next door to tiny old ones. Some neighbors are working class Mexicans while others are retired business owners. It's a friendly neighborhood, BTW and we get along and help each other out when there's a problem.

I think we should stick to describing what we know instead of making assumptions about other people's choices.

Right on Gringal. Agree with everything you say.

You'll find gated communities in virtually every country where there are expats. And there are a number of reasons why some of us chose to live in a gated community. The number one reason for me was my wife. She just feels more secure in a gated community and whether that is reality, or perception, to her it is important. And since I want her happy, we'll live in a gated community for a long time, or until she is comfortable enough to move into the village proper. There are other reasons, social environment, a community pool, club house and workout facilities.
I've had lots of people say "how can you live in a gringo gulch?", but I find a wide array of neighbors in our community. I'd guess half the homes are owned by Mexicans, 1/4 Canadians, and 1/4 Americans. About the same in the 2 other gated communities I frequent. We've got lots of friends who live in the villages, Chapala, SJC, Riberas, Ajijic and I enjoy their houses, and appreciate that they meld into the community and love it, but some of us are a little slower to take the plunge.
I don't see it as one being right and the other being wrong, it's a matter of personal preference, and I'd liken it to the safety issue. We all have different tolerance levels of risks we are willing to take (as has been discussed thoroughly on these boards), I see housing pretty much the same way.
To each his own. There is no right or wrong on this one.

Well said G-gal. There is something for everyone in Mexico. Lizzy

Well said Gringal. I find it very amusing that many of the people who live among Mexicans in Jocotepec and other places and brag about their Mexican neighborhood do not speak enough Spanish to be really included in the Mexican community. As Gringal says it is pure reverse snobbery.
There are plenty of Mexicans living in the village in Ajijic, not need to go to any other place to learn Spanish or mix with Mexicans.

Thank you gringal and juanrey. Well said!

I have lived in 22 homes (different states and or countries) So after looking into Lake Chapala area for approximately 8 months I came down for five weeks. After that I went back home and sold everything I own and was back on the road driving down in 10 days. I made it from Seattle to Guadalajara in 4 ½ days.

Living down here is a lot less expensive than NOB and my retirement goes a lot farther. I may have a different outlook on things than most people here, for me if in time I don’t like the area I’ll move. There are a few other parts of Mexico that interest me and "IF" I live in all of them and still find I’m not happy there is South America.

I’m not tied to the states by family but I do have a girlfriend here in Mexico, she will retire soon then we’ll travel even more.

I had moved to Alaska without ever even being there one time and I lived there for 16 years (the longest of anyplace) I’m pretty comfortable with packing it up and moving on.

I can say that in the time I've lived in Guadalajara I have seen there is a lot more to do here than around the lake. The night life goes until 2 or 3 am most every day.

It’s a large world and I will only live so long.

Me&BearDog wrote: It’s a large world and I will only live so long.

Both those statements might be debatable...
...what with contemporary communication and modern medicine? Lizzy

Wow you guys are great here!!

I am not looking to go anywhere for maybe 5-6 years....so lots of time to check out lots of places down there. In my line of work, I deal with a great number of Mexican people....most of them are so nice, they just wanted a better life up here in the states. They are teaching me spanish.....nowhere near being able to speak it.....but I do know lots and lots of words LOL. I can learn much more in the time until I am ready to retire.

I plan on renting for quite sometime....that way I can pick up and go if the mood strikes. I can't wait to be able to get to all the great places Mexico has to offer....so much history to learn!

I feel like a sponge with all this information from all of you! Thank you so much...I am sure to be asking lots of questions for some time!

Rella wrote:Wow you guys are great here!!

I am not looking to go anywhere for maybe 5-6 years....so lots of time to check out lots of places down there. In my line of work, I deal with a great number of Mexican people....most of them are so nice, they just wanted a better life up here in the states. They are teaching me spanish.....nowhere near being able to speak it.....but I do know lots and lots of words LOL. I can learn much more in the time until I am ready to retire.

I plan on renting for quite sometime....that way I can pick up and go if the mood strikes. I can't wait to be able to get to all the great places Mexico has to offer....so much history to learn!

I feel like a sponge with all this information from all of you! Thank you so much...I am sure to be asking lots of questions for some time!

We are mostly retired here time we have LOL.

Z

brigitte wrote:Well said Gringal. I find it very amusing that many of the people who live among Mexicans in Jocotepec and other places and brag about their Mexican neighborhood do not speak enough Spanish to be really included in the Mexican community. As Gringal says it is pure reverse snobbery.
There are plenty of Mexicans living in the village in Ajijic, not need to go to any other place to learn Spanish or mix with Mexicans.

I don't think I was bragging about anything...and the only snobbery on this thread is the implication that "haves" get to live in gated communities, the"have not's" don't. I know C-Bob well enough to admit that I am probably misunderstanding his point, but I'm not sure Newbie gets it. Most of the posts here seem to be about life on the north shore, be it in a gated community or a village. My point was to advise Newbie that Lake side is much more than a small area on the north shore with a high concentration of gringos. Some, like us, came here to immerse ourselves in the Mexican culture of the west end. Some go further afield to the south side and may be the only gringo in a small village, if they even live in a village....as I said in my first post, It is a matter of what kind of life style you want.
Prior to moving here 7 years ago, we lived 30 years in Mexico border states and traveled here often.. For 25 of those years we had horses and lived outside of incorporated areas. I am married to a European citizen and with our frequent travels there, I developed a great appreciation of foreign cultures and a desire to jump in and immerse. That's me, and it is not for everybody, but Newbie needs to know that living at Lake Chapala can be much more than a small section along the north side of the lake.

Gotcha, GBA trucks, but the "haves and have nots" bit didn't come across very well. Let's just let it lie in the no mans' land of things we might have put differently if we had thought about it more. The Newbie knows whether she wants to "immerse" or not, and I think the rest of us pointed out some of the options. There is a vast number of them other than living in a Mexican barrio and an all-gringo upscale community.
Cheers.

Well said gringal. Thank you for raising the bar on civil discourse.

And, as Rella posts, she's not even going anywhere for 5 or 6 years! One whole helluvalot can happen in the next 5 or 6 years!!!

I'd also expand on GBAT's post: "My point was to advise Newbie that Lake side is much more than a small area on the north shore with a high concentration of gringos.". . . and say that MEXICO is much more than a small area on the north shore of Lake Chapala with a high concentration of foreigners.