After Tonights Meeting on Ajijic Plaza Please Post the Facts

If there haven't been any recent events in Jocotepec, then how come a suspension of classes is being announced on Twitter?

Obviously a precautionary measure. The reports of abductions are conflicting and not yet verified. Nothing in the Mexican press yet either.

Our maid could not come today because her kids school is closed in Joco today. She told us that there was a new sign that they were going to take 100 women and children and were coming after kids in private schools. Our kids school in Ajijic has taken new security measures and have sent notes home with the kids yesterday. No, not in the news papers, but the locals know what is going on and are taking precautions.

fastrak wrote:Our maid could not come today because her kids school is closed in Joco today. She told us that there was a new sign that they were going to take 100 women and children and were coming after kids in private schools. Our kids school in Ajijic has taken new security measures and have sent notes home with the kids yesterday. No, not in the news papers, but the locals know what is going on and are taking precautions.

So, it's true because your maid said it's so? No kidnappings in Joco as rumoured. That's my info as of two days ago.

John please stop denying people what they know. Either that or go over to Joco and find out what's going on. You are such a twit.

johninajijic wrote:

fastrak wrote:Our maid could not come today because her kids school is closed in Joco today. She told us that there was a new sign that they were going to take 100 women and children and were coming after kids in private schools. Our kids school in Ajijic has taken new security measures and have sent notes home with the kids yesterday. No, not in the news papers, but the locals know what is going on and are taking precautions.

So, it's true because your maid said it's so? No kidnappings in Joco as rumoured. That's my info as of two days ago.

Just finished a meeting at our school. There are 3 federal schools closed in Joco today because of the warnings of further kidnappings of women and children. FYI

David, I can see John going over to Joco and asking in English to the forst people he meets if they had been any kidnapping... that would be a pretty funny scene, would be a hit on a telenovela...i

johninajijic wrote:

fastrak wrote:Our maid could not come today because her kids school is closed in Joco today. She told us that there was a new sign that they were going to take 100 women and children and were coming after kids in private schools. Our kids school in Ajijic has taken new security measures and have sent notes home with the kids yesterday. No, not in the news papers, but the locals know what is going on and are taking precautions.

So, it's true because your maid said it's so? No kidnappings in Joco as rumoured. That's my info as of two days ago.

John, I actually believe that others do NOT want to read your opinions on this subject just as I don't. You have stated them over and over. As far as I am concerned - with your it-didn't-happen attitude, you are heaping a ton of disrespect on the mexican community over and over and over and over and over again.

Everyone on this board knows how you feel. So sure - when something NEW comes up - state your opinion. But please, skip the over and over and over with all of your posts. Too much disrespect for me. This is a sad time. And no, kidnappings of every day citizens does not make it into the newspapers in this country. Try some self control.

CheenaGringo wrote:If there haven't been any recent events in Jocotepec, then how come a suspension of classes is being announced on Twitter?

A precautionary measure or fewer School buses running same as is happening in Ajijic.

Thank you, Grizzy and Ms. Thang for your excellent reporting.

I was there too, sitting in front, and still unable to hear it all. However I must say that I agree with Ms. Thang 100% and won't repeat the points she made.

What I found most interesting (and entertaining) was the body language of the chief. He fidgeted, he was often distracted with messing with his phone, he crossed his arms in front of his chest, he usually had one foot at the mike and the other one ready to run, he smirked at times, he failed to establish much eye contact, he chose his words very carefully, it felt like he was not speaking spontaneously, and mostly he looked like he'd rather be having cancer surgery - not that I blame him for that part. He spoke like a politician.

He conveniently dodged the many Joco abduction questions by saying it wasn't his jurisdiction and he had enough problems of his own.

When the rain started he tried to bail with the comment that . . ."the conditions had deteriorated". . .and the crowd went wild. The Mexican people were genuinely pi$$ed and the foreign population sounded divided
to me. There were some really strong first hand accusations of police misconduct and no relative response from the chief except get the truck number and descriptions. The point that some trucks had covered up the numbers and many cops wear balaclavas was made, he shrugged.

The woman who had been renting a house to the Benno family was one of the first to speak. She was NOT happy and he would have loved to see the earth swallow her up right in front of him. She said she hikes up on the mountain often and why had it been 3 days before she had any knowledge that it was not safe to do so anymore. He gave no credible answer. Some rather loud foreigners behind us discredited her to each other and said she should shut-up. Amazingly stupid people.

Basically, it's our problem because we never report crimes or suspicious doings and we can solve it by working together and reporting. Uh-huh.

Post your source John in Spanish. A reputable news source and while your at it translate it for us.

John has his own sources and they're way better than anyone elses. That's how he's able to be the sole arbiter of truth and fiction. Any more sources would simply be too much information (TMI).

I missed most of the woman who was talking or asking about Benno and family. The Chief was clear that Joco has their own jurisdiction and he was not getting involved in their issues.
I think rather than expecting the local police to provide translations etc it is up to us. I have great respect for police in Mexico given the poor conditions and the violence they face, the under training and vulnerability.

There was a question posed that the Chief sidestepped and I was going to ask about it but I forgot the topic LOL. My internet is out so am using wifi in a coffee place. Too distracting for my old brain.

I don't feel any more or less safe than I did before the meeting. I think most people have their minds made up about the threat level here and are not going to shift except to the more dangerous spectrum and that is an individual decision that should never be questioned or mocked.

I guess we wait for the next round of rumours/ confirmed issues and pray for peace.

Contreras would not comment on anything that happened in Jocotepec because it is not in his jurisdiction. he would neither confirm or deny reports of recent happenings there.
Many people spoke up and said that they were afraid to send their children to school because there were never any police around..Contreras said that the school and parents needed to take responsibility for their children safety because he didn't have enough police to patrol each school.

Contreras squirmed through the whole thing. It takes confidence to be police chief and he doesn't have it.
It started to rain and boy did he look hopeful when that happened, a lot of people left but many stood firm right there in the rain and basically told him "you are not going anywhere."

Big Daddy, was not trying to be snarky, I was thinking that you were at the meeting and since I missed a lot because of noise and poor speaking on the part of Contreras, I was interested in your take.
I am not one of those people that get offended if someone disagrees with me ...either way, we're cool, Big Daddy.

People didn't actually Boo, it was more like the crowd erupted in protest with shouts of "noooooo" and "No es cierto"...things like that. Still, I would describe the crowd as skeptical and hostile at best, for the most part.

Maincoons, I was left with the impression that progress had been made with the safe house busts and from what I understand they are connected and were established by the same group.

It would have been helpful if the Joco cheif had been there too. A lot of people pointed out that they live in Joco and work in Ajijic. I don't know if the Joco Chief has spoken publicly, but it would be nice if Contreras was there if he did. There needs to be more collaboration with these two municipalities . It seems that the narcos are taking advantage of that gap.

The kidnappings of the Realtors: I watched this story twice on GDL Noticias and read the story in Pagina 24. I don't want to keep harping on it, but it was a big shock , not just to me but to the whole crowd when Contreras said he knew nothing of it. His credibility, what ever he might have had, was shot from that point on and affected the spirit of the whole meeting. This is the information taken from GDL noticias and pagina 24.

The kidnapping happened on may 02 at kilometro 4 on the carratera Ajijic-Chapala. The administrator was a a male , the gender of the employee was not mentioned.

The families were contacted and a $300,000.00 ransom was demanded for their release.

The kidnappers accepted $40,000.00 and that was was paid on May 05 at a mall in Guadalajara. The victims were later released near the intersection of carraterra Chapala-Ajijic

The kidnappers continued to try to extort the whole original amount of $300.000 even though the hostages had been released . Two of the four kidnappers involved were caught when they tried to pick up another payment at Centro Magno Mall in Guadalajara.

Two other participants of this crime were caught at a house on Calle Hidalgo in san Nicolas de Ibarra (municipo of Chapala) in the place where the victims were held captive. They also found weapons and the $40,000 cash.

Now , tell me how he knew nothing about this. Better yet, tell me why he denied knowing anything about this.

Exactly! I thought the least he should have done was to say that he was unable to comment due to an ongoing investigation or something. . .nope. He flat out denied knowing about it.

I believe there is a Joco security meeting at Agustín's restaurant Viva Mexico today or tonight??? I wouldn't expect anything informative to come from that either. Additionally, it will probably be a mostly foreign audience as it's a long way for Joco Mexican folk to go on the bus even if they know about it. Doubt there will be many SJC Mexican folks there either.

Be interesting to see what Dale has to say in the coming issue.

Mainecoons wrote:Question: Aside from the small players who seem more active at the moment, it appears to me that pretty much all of the recent big action is attributable to one group and they have been pretty much handled with arrests and busts of their safe houses in Riberas and Rancho del Oro.

Is that your impression as well? Or is it too optimistic?

I for one agree with you. The government (police, army) will win this war because, as rich as the cartels are, they can't win because the people and the government are against them and they don't have the resources that the Mexican government, along with U.S. help, can throw at them.
There was once a great German military, but in the end, there were too many people and resources against them.

Interestingly, with the headline from INFORMADOR:"Foreign residents are asking for more security in Chapala"
one might get the impression that there was little interest on the part of the Mexican community but the first hand reports seem to indicate otherwise.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=es&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.informador.com.mx/primera/2012/376761/6/residentes-extranjeros-piden-mas-seguridad-en-chapala.htm&usg=ALkJrhgj2aKcBEtN0c1Vru9mVBwQzMuphQ

I forgot to mention that the cartel responsible for the Realtor kidnappings was the CJNG.

And the street name in Rancho Del Oro was mentioned in the news last night but I can't remember what it was.

There were way more Mexicans at that meeting than foreigners, especially after it started to rain.

Slainte, The overall vibe in the Mexican community is that the police are corrupt and if there is a 'winner " in this war it won't be the people of Chapala unless Chapala gets outside help.

Have Chapala police apprehended any Zetas? Or just people from other cartels like the CJNG? I'm asking because I have lost track of who did what.

I am told that when a police chief takes office he has to choose which cartel he is going to cooperate with. Maybe Contreras is team Zeta, maybe he is a straight up guy that can't be bought. Most people have an opinion about that based on what goes on. Whatever his position is , it's not going to come out in the news.

Well it seems that the people arrested are usual low level guys and most of the busted houses are busted when no one is home , how convenient.

slainte39 wrote:

Mainecoons wrote:Question: Aside from the small players who seem more active at the moment, it appears to me that pretty much all of the recent big action is attributable to one group and they have been pretty much handled with arrests and busts of their safe houses in Riberas and Rancho del Oro.

Is that your impression as well? Or is it too optimistic?

I for one agree with you. The government (police, army) will win this war because, as rich as the cartels are, they can't win because the people and the government are against them and they don't have the resources that the Mexican government, along with U.S. help, can throw at them.
There was once a great German military, but in the end, there were too many people and resources against them.

Sorry, but you and MC are acting like this is good guys/bad guys or cops and robbers. When you have state police having prolonged gun battles with federal forces in the streets for the express interest of protecting cartel resources, or when you have an investigative rate of 5% for 50,000 homicides, not a conviction rate mind you, but an investigative rate, or the cooperation of the army with certain cartels,....well now we're down the rabbit hole and through the looking glass.

You guys have got to stop thinking about this as a Audie Murphy movie. What you are seeing is the unraveling of a corrupt state.

Oh, Thank god!

I thought I was out here all alone.

Just about every expat I talk with says it doesn't matter its all about the drugs and if you don't do them you won't be bothered....drinking the koolaid.

Or the Kumbayah contingent of smile and send out positive energy. That you can do for your own peace of mind but don't expect it to work.

I agree that the apparatus is radically flawed and it will be some time before the goals are achieved.
My analogy to the Nazis was (without saying), the fact that 6 million Jews died, before that atrocious regime was brought down. The "good guys" are always slow starters and have to come from behind.
THIS IS the good guys vs. the bad as I place the corrupt ( and only the corrupt) police with the "bad guys"-

slainte39 wrote:I agree that the apparatus is radically flawed and it will be some time before the goals are achieved.
My analogy to the Nazis was (without saying), the fact that 6 million Jews died, before that atrocious regime was brought down. The "good guys" are always slow starters and have to come from behind.
THIS IS the good guys vs. the bad as I place the corrupt ( and only the corrupt) police with the "bad guys"-

I think you're 100% mistaken. Do you know anything about the so-called "drug war" sometimes being used as a smoke-screen for counter-insurgency tactics by the army against leftist groups in Mexico? Have you read about the killing of students protesting in Juaréz under the pretext of anti-narco efforts? j How about the protests in Oaxaca? How about the arrest of opposition PRI politicians right before the elections in Michoacán, all charges dropped after the elections? Ever wonder why the maquiladores in Juaréz are curiously untouched by the horrific violence in that town? Do you wonder why the arrest and death rates for the Sinaloa cartel run about 90% less that death and arrest rates for the competing cartels? How about prisoners in federal prison being let out each night to go on killing sprees in Tamaulipas? Chapo Guzmán escaping from Puente Grande in 2001 right here in Jalisco?

The list goes on and on. Do your research and if you then still agree that it is "good guys" vs "bad guys", then I'll have that discussion.

“How could it be possible that during the past six years we have had more than 60,000 deaths, 10,000 disappearances and 160,000 displaced people, yet only two percent of those crimes have been resolved?” asked Sicilia to a group of Latino journalists who met him after his arrival to “La Iglesia de la Placita,” one of the oldest Catholic churches in downtown Los Angeles. “It is clear that Mexicans have been living under a failed state. It’s a national tragedy born of a wrong strategy.”

Javier Sicilia April 28th, 2012

Javier Sicilia is a poet, essayist, novelist, and journalist in Mexico. On March 28, 2011, Sicilia's son Juan Francisco Sicilia Ortega was murdered along with six other victims in Temixco, Morelos, by drug gang members.

Your'e not saying the PRI politicians in Michoacan were clean are you?Which party was running Tamaulipas when those escapes happened?It's obvious that el Chapo has protection provided by the PAN,just look at the botched attempt to capure him in Baja recently,saved by the "pitazo".Too bad the women who work in the maquiladoras are'nt protected as well as the maquiladoras are.The PAN has been dissapointing to say the least.Too bad Marcelo Ebrard isn't a candidate,with him as president there might have been some change for the good,as it is Mexico will be stuck with Salinas de Gotaris'godson for president,picture that.

My gardener's son's school in Ajijic is closed, teachers closed it because of the perceived threat.