Children and behavior issues.

Re: Dog friendly restaurants by CheenaGringo Today at 4:05 pm.

Please don't get me started on kids!.

No, let’s talk about children. They should not be allowed in middle to upscale restaurants, (Denny, McDonalds and some other kid friendly places, O.K.), absolutely not airplanes or other confined areas where the noisy and free flowing germs can actually kill you. I’m not sure what the age limit should be but somewhere around four if there well behaved.

I have definitely spent a lot of time in the air and young parents just think they’re too cute and deserve every consideration because they are over populating the earth, (puke, Sorry) and they just can’t seem to arrive early, like the rest of us if we want a little extra comfort. Then they expect you to give up your earned comfort because they just didn’t plan their day correctly. (Like planning it will probably take at least an hour longer than expected because with kids this is just the norm.) I actually encourage extra baggage fees, hopefully babies do need lots of extra luggage and this may make parents think twice before getting on a plane.

I actually remember when flying was nice and it was expensive compared to the standard of living. Children didn’t fly free, full fare for everyone, as it should be. A mother takes a lot more time in a restroom to change a diaper than someone does to pee. Learn this if nothing else, only parents and grandparents think their children and grandchild are special, the rest of us just think they belong in a proper environment where they are confortable and can be properly taken care of.

I never did like you much. Now even less. Get over yourself, oh special person.

Solovino wrote:I never did like you much. Now even less. Get over yourself, oh special person.

No I agree with many of the points he make. I didn't have children and I really don't relate to many of them and I do find parents quite often to be holier
than thou about there kids. I know we have to live with them and I accept that but they really can be very loud and obnoxious especially if they are very
close to you on a plane. I know I was trained to go to a resturant or a plane and if I screwed up I lost something important to me for a period of time. Yes
I do understand children have to move around and not much choice but plane these days but I do think many parents could do a better job. Not quite taking
it as far as Parker but if you push away the emotion he makes some valid points.

Z

What's the difference between poorly behaved kids and poorly behaved adults? Obnoxious is obnoxious.

Solovino wrote:What's the difference between poorly behaved kids and poorly behaved adults? Obnoxious is obnoxious.

Children are trained by adults. Adults are supposed to be already trained. Key is trained to behave. Yes anything can be obnoxious sometimes
but we have rules to behave which adults are suppose to know. If they don't they are penalized if it goes beyond a certain point. Children don't
know the rules so we adults teach them. Some Parents can do a better job. All I am saying. Many parents do a great job or have very difficult
children, not complaining about these folks. You know the ones we are talking about. The ones who think it is cute for there kid to crawl all over
me (or you) and various other behavior which they ignore.

Z

At what point are they penalized and by whom? Loud, boisterous drunks can raise a lot of hell before they are "penalized". What a joke. Try going to the beach for a few days and see how loud and obnoxious a whole lot of tourists can get. Should they be banned from traveling?
You and puker are painting all kids and their parents with a broad brush.

I didn't read that they were painting all kids and all parents with a broad brush.
Loud, obnoxious self centred kids usually grow up to be loud, obnoxious self centred adults. Why? Because nobody set boundaries and told them the limitations of polite behaviour. Some parents don't teach their children table manners either.
In many cases, it's catch 22...parents can't teach their kids what they weren't taught themselves...kinda sad.

ferret wrote:I didn't read that they were painting all kids and all parents with a broad brush.

parker wrote:No, let’s talk about children. They should not be allowed in middle to upscale restaurants, (Denny, McDonalds and some other kid friendly places, O.K.), absolutely not airplanes or other confined areas where the noisy and free flowing germs can actually kill you. I’m not sure what the age limit should be but somewhere around four if there well behaved.

Where does she differentiate?

Whoa there! About kids: parents have to get from here to there on airplanes, so Parker's point of view seems a little off the walls.

There are problem parents, and they should be fined or whatever appropriate disciplinary measures taken when their children annoy other fare-paying passengers. Having a drooling kidlet leaning over the seat into your space is a PITA and the parent should be hauling it back where it belongs. Maybe there should be a "crying compartment" at the back as they have in churches and theaters. Dealing with problem parents is up to the airline, the restaurant or whoever is running the show when the behavior problems happen.

Many of us can remember being raised by people who taught us manners at a very early age. Bless them. Those kids could be taken into any restaurant and counted on to use good table manners, sit quietly and know that there were consequences if they didn't. We adults can be reasonable, too, and remember how hard it was to be a child trying to be on good behavior, or how hard it was to be a mom or dad, trying to enforce it on a long journey. "Are we there yet?"

We are born little savages and it is the duty of our elders to civilize us.

Not much different from training pups, is it? It's a job. The behavior of the dogs is a reflection on the "dog parent".

I'd rather sit at a table with a bunch of kids than with a bunch of grouchy old farts anyday.

viajero wrote:I'd rather sit at a table with a bunch of kids than with a bunch of grouchy old farts anyday.

That, amigo, goes without saying. Or a bunch of "ladies who lunch", after the voice escalation resulting from tee many martoonies. That goes for guys who lunch as well, and the drink of choice.

I think what we'd all like is to have others leave us in at least a relative state of peace without overly rowdy kids, noisy adults, loose or yappy dogs and in general........things that get in the way of just enjoying a meal out. Meanwhile, it's another beautiful day and we're off to brunch where we'll probably see a bunch of happy old farts enjoying good food.

Re: Children and behavior issues.
by Solovino Today at 2:08 am

I never did like you much. Now even less. Get over yourself, oh special person.

You don’t know me and it often appears you don’t like many others either. When you really can’t defend yourself you turn to name calling, how adult of you. I doubt if you remember but I may have written less than five posts and you called me a moron. From that day forward for about 5 months you called me some type of name, no debate, no matter what I wrote until you found someone else to harass.

Re: Children and behavior issues.
by Solovino Today at 2:38 am

What's the difference between poorly behaved kids and poorly behaved adults? Obnoxious is obnoxious.

Nothing, but this thread specifically suggest we talk about “Children and behavior issues.”

Agreed Gringal,I have no problem sharing my table with happy old farts.

Parker wrote: I doubt if you remember but I may have written less than five posts and you called me a moron.

Yeah, I don't what come over me. I should have called you a moron after your first post.

Solovino wrote:

Parker wrote: I doubt if you remember but I may have written less than five posts and you called me a moron.

Yeah, I don't what come over me. I should have called you a moron after your first post.

Why do you need to take every thing out context? Here is the complete paragraph.

You don’t know me and it often appears you don’t like many others either. When you really can’t defend yourself you turn to name calling, how adult of you. I doubt if you remember but I may have written less than five posts and you called me a moron. From that day forward for about 5 months you called me some type of name, no debate, no matter what I wrote until you found someone else to harass.

Stop it guys remember the powers to be are complaining about our behavior.
We could at least be cool for a couple of weeks or we are gonna get a lecture. One we probably deserve.

Z

Don't know if Parker or Zed had any children, but if they did I wonder how they turned out, if they didn't, that would be a blessing.

martygraw wrote:Don't know if Parker or Zed had any children, but if they did I wonder how they turned out, if they didn't, that would be a blessing.

And how would you know this? Or is this just a snide comment to prop-up your ego?

Frankly, I find Mexican kids to be far better behaved than their NOB counterparts generally speaking. I also find that many restaurants here have play areas for kids, which allows them to let off steam if they get bored. Furthermore, Mexican parents usually take their kids with them when they go out so their children get used to being in restaurants, and know what is expected.
Seems to me that many NOB parents just have no idea. Children should be exposed often and fairly early in life to behavior in public places. Parents should also plan ahead and take coloring books or puzzles so their kids don't get bored. If they seriously act up, then they should be removed from the scene quickly so there is absolutely no reward for obnoxious behavior. It's not rocket science.

Parker wrote:

Solovino wrote:

Parker wrote: I doubt if you remember but I may have written less than five posts and you called me a moron.

Yeah, I don't what come over me. I should have called you a moron after your first post.

Why do you need to take every thing out context? Here is the complete paragraph.

You don’t know me and it often appears you don’t like many others either. When you really can’t defend yourself you turn to name calling, how adult of you. I doubt if you remember but I may have written less than five posts and you called me a moron. From that day forward for about 5 months you called me some type of name, no debate, no matter what I wrote until you found someone else to harass.

You're still a moron.

Ditto, Raq.
For anyone who's ever observed the following routine in a grocery store, the parenting dilemna is obvious.

The scenario:
Kid, sees something he likes. "Momma, (point) I want that". Mom: "No." Kid, getting louder: "WANT THAT!!!!" and stalls in the aisle; little feet turning into concrete floor attachments.. From this point, depending on the kid's experience with harassing mom and it's results, either (A) sticks his lower lip out, pouts and shuts up or (B) goes into such a tantrum mode than Mom often gives in to save herself embarrassment, or just because it's easier.

This routine is not confined to the Excited States. I've seen it in in Mexico and elsewhere.
So..........poor moms, everywhere. Poor bystanders. Dont'cha love it when some know-it-all makes snide comments while it's happening? There's always at least one. There's the Easy Mark who thinks mom is being mean to say no, and there's the sniffy (probably childless) one who blames mom, no matter what. Been there? Fun.

Unfortunately, the best parenting routines don't necessarily result in civilized and/or successful adults. Sometimes kids get involved with the bad stuff and sadness results. However, all people can do with their kids is TRY. As Raq said, it's not rocket science.

Love this topic as we were just talking about this to friends this morning that just returned from the beach after 3 months, they said for the holiday of Benito Juarez, all the Mexicans came to the hotel they were at and they disrupted everything, and laughed when the kids would stand on the edge of the pool and pee in it and throw their cookies into the pool. One Mexican guy, was seen peeing in the flower beds everyday.
My friends that told us all this totally adore children of all kinds but not at this vacation.

My husbands son has disowned us because I never had children and for some reason he thinks I pushed them away, even after I spent $1,000's of dollars and time shopping for them at Christmas every year. I even had a toy box at our house for them since their rotten mother would not get on them when they touched everything in my home.

Yes I agree, children should be seen and not heard and these wimpy adults that let the children totally run their lives, it is just incredible. If we as kids ever acted up or out of line we got it and I mean got it good. Our teachers and bus drivers even gave it to us if we acted up.

Now lets hear it from " that is child abuse" Whatever. I think I turned out pretty good and always willing to help others and I respect my elders even if they are jack asses.

Raqueteer I agree,There are lots of well behaved kids NOB,my kids and grandkids included,but I find in general that mexican kids are very well behaved,patient and fun to be around,my six year old son is a prime example,maybe I just like kids, which would account for me enjoying this forum.
Chris

I don’t mind well behaved kids but in many cases one just can’t tell which ones they are immediately. Plus, IMO, kids in general prefer children friendly environments over upper scale restaurants and plane rides. We may sacrifice a few who will behave for the sanity of a majority. One screaming child will ruin a flight for at least 40 surrounding people and if they have colic symptoms, guess what it’s for the whole flight.

There are age appropriate situations for most things the beach being a great thing for kids. Just don’t try to turn them into adults before their ready and in the process make others suffer. It’s plain and simple, it’s just not considerate. IMHO

Since it was my open ended statement on another topic that appears to have been the trigger for this, maybe it is time for me to chime in. From the various comments, it appears that restaurants and airplanes are two critical points. For those of us born in say the late 30's to early 50's, airplane travel, steamship travel, hotels and restaurants were a far different picture! Airplane travel was somewhat of a privilege and wasn't something that people took for granted. I don't think I ever boarded a plane with my parents when I wasn't wearing a tie and sportcoat. I include domestic flights on DC3's in various countries and longer international flights on various flavors of prop planes. When we traveled on ocean liners, one always dressed for dinner but looking like a slob the rest of the day wasn't tolerated. With the exception of the US, it was always hotels since the motel concept was fairly limited back in those days. Again with the exception of the US where drive in restaurants had their place, eating a meal was in a restaurant and considered a necessity when traveling but a special occasion when at home.

I would guess that many of our parents were quite similar in that they did not tolerate acting up in public and were absolutely adamant about respecting others, especially our elders. Obviously, times have changed and parenting patterns have certainly changed! Many of the things I mentioned above as being a privilege are simply taken for granted and there seems to be a lack of any type of consequence for those children who act up or misbehave. For kids today, there is no difference in their behavior when riding in a car versus taking a plane. There is no behavior difference when eating in a nice restaurant versus Burger King. There is no behavior difference at a nice resort hotel versus staying at a Motel 6. And there certainly is a lack of respect for anyone around them when out in public.

The net result of all of this negative behavior is that we are blown away when we observe children who have been raised in a positive manner and conduct themselves with proper deportment in public. While neither of us chose to have children, we have absolutely zero problem interacting with children who were raised properly!