No Business in Restaurants

hockables wrote:All things comparitively speaking... if you have a swimming pool, whirlpool, sauna, side by side fridge & freezer w/ water & ice...and todays electronics, all have stand-by, so they are on, when they are off [emphasis Lehrer's] ...lol..... lighting may be a little lower in your percentage of total usage...

I would have though a learned man might have taken this into consideration before stooping to name calling.

Of course there is savings to be had by switching to energy efficient lighting...

Even before coming to Mexico, my wife & I learned to unplug all those appliances that are "on" even when they're "off" -- the internal clocks (which most people don't even need) are sucking juice 24/7 when plugged in. The TV, DVD-player, VHS-player, microwave oven -- all are unplugged when not in use.

Energy-saving bulbs are a no-brainer.

Our biggest user? The refrigerator. On occasion, the washer and the dryer, neither of which is used daily.

Last electric bill? For 55 days, only $226.00 MXN.

David wrote:Where, Arkansas?

Hey, David!

I resemble that remark!!

Still, I'm in Mexico for good.....

David wrote:You really don't have a clue do you John? We replaced 6 75W floods in our kitchen with 15W, instead of 450W the kitchen now uses 90. Those 350W/hr we're not using (6hrs/day) equal 63kWhrs or about $25USD per month. That is a significant difference. If you don't want to do the math then don't, just don't bitch about your high CFE bill, it's your own doing.

BTW, anyone who rents doesn't pay property tax.

David. First of all, anyone would switch from those old fashioned floodlights to CFL's. Of course that's a big savings. I should have been clearer. Years ago we switched every bulb to CFL'S. It made absolutely NO difference in our electric bill because we don't USE ALL the lights in the house ALL THE time.

Zedinmexico wrote:

johninajijic wrote:

Zedinmexico wrote:Moved to mexico property taxes dropped to 0 from $350, Same health
insurance premium dropped from $180 to $120 (worked for international
company), Insurance dropped from $200 to $50, Fed/State taxes cut
by two thirds. Yes Electricity and wheat thins are very expensive but I
can live without wheat thins and replacing lights/pumps/fridge with
energy saving gear solves the CFL problem. I would have to go back to
work if I wanted to live up in NOB in any place decent. Somehow hanging
out in some old mining town in Arizona wouldn't cut it for me at least. All
prices are in USD per month.

Z

How about explaining what each of these figures you give are instead of generalizing? No ones property taxes in Mexico are 0. What's the $ 350 for? $ 350 a month for taxes?? What insurance premium dropped? What insurance dropped? I can't imagine any insurance at $ 200 a month.



You can replace all the bulbs you want, it won't make ANY difference. That is the smallest part of your electric bill which is peanuts and you don't leave every light on in your house. Replacing a $ 2,000. refrigerator to have an energy saving one, would take forever to pay for itself and if you're old enough, you might not see the savings. What pumps would you replace? Swimming pool???

350USD dollars in US I paid for property taxes per month. I pay 0 here because I rent.
No need for fire insurance, liability bond, all that is left is car insurance and that is $50USD/mo


Well I am an engineer and you are so full of shit regarding this one. 60% of all electricity is lighting. It saves a fortune going to CFL or LED. I paid
$550 for an energy 20CF or so fridge. I replaced the fountain pump with one that used half the electricity. I bought a 52" LED TV that uses 80 watts
when it is on. I can go on and on.

John can't you ask a question in a civilized manner???

Z

I didn't say anything in a non civilized manner. I just asked you questions. I didn't stoop to your level of name calling.

Your an Engineer? I seriously doubt that, if you think 60% of all electric is in lighting. The highest usage is a swimming pool pump or 2 pumps if you have a jacuzzi. A swimming pool pump is 75% of your electric bill. A 25 Cu Ft refrigerator is the second biggest user as are kitchen appliances. Most all kitchen appliances draw 1500 watts, toaster, toaster oven, microwave, coffee maker and iron.

We have a 57" projection TV and home theater system that draws about 600 watts an hour. It's on for 6 hours a day. Then theres the computer and my old 20" monitor that draws about 150 watts an hour.

People without swimming pools in our neighbourhood average 800 - 900 pesos every 2 months for electricity. Those with pools average 4,000 - 6,000 pesos every 2 months.

Sorry John don't know why I was so pissed off.
My Bad

John After seeing what you think is normal I can see why you think lighting
is a minor expense. In the real world lighting is over half the total electricity
generated. In the US it is about 15% due to high efficiency bulbs. Lighting
is a huge expense in Mexico and the world. Sometimes I invest more to save
electricity in the future. I can guarantee you it will not get cheaper. You have
decided to pay a higher electric bill. I decided to invest in energy saving technology
and have smaller bills later. I call it investing for the future. Seems
to me if you have these pools that take 3 to 5K pesos every two months it
would be economical to let the sun heat the water and PV panels to run the pump.
That's an awful lot of pesos!! FYI I was a "Member of the Technical Staff" at HP
in a manufacturing facility.

Z

My pool pump, water pump, pool lights, and a small freezer are on a separate meter, the bill is between $350 and $500 depending on the time of year. Modern pumps do no use much power.

Zed & David:

The problem when communicating or attempting to communicate with John is that neither of you has published LISTS on the topics you are debating. You could probably really baffle him with something called a Spreadsheet!

David wrote:My pool pump, water pump, pool lights, and a small freezer are on a separate meter, the bill is between $350 and $500 depending on the time of year. Modern pumps do no use much power.

Yep, same here. We unplug everything in the casita which is only used for guests. Unplug the bar fridge except when we really need the extra space. Have all energy saving appliances, and a ratty old T.V. because there's not much worth watching anyhow. Keep 2 computers on all day and our bill is waaaay less than 5,000 a month. In fact last time it was under 3k.

People without swimming pools in our neighbourhood average 800 - 900 pesos every 2 months for electricity. Those with pools average 4,000 - 6,000 pesos every 2 months.[/quote]

Now, Z & John, I don´t want to get involved in your electrical efficiency debate but John´s remark about the electrical usage of swimming pools has taught me something that I had not previously considered. It happens that we have a standard sized swimming pool on our property that is metered separately from our home and we inherited the thing from the previous owners and we keep the pool up to standard with crystal clear chlorinated water and to achieve that level of maintenance our gardener regularly cleans the pool and runs the electrical pump at least two to four hours every day he is here five days a week. Now, we have been here over ten years and we consistently spend about $120 Pesos every two months on that pool pump or the equivalent of about $4USD a month at today´s exchange rate. That, I repeat, is a separate meter simply measuring the electrical usage of the swimming pool pump and, perhaps, some peripheral electrical lighting in the pool area. What this says to me is that, if the electrical cost in John´s neighborhood for pool owners for pool maintenance is running some $3,000 to $5,000 Pesos extra a month over the normal electrical costs of their non-pooled neighbors, this has to be the incremental costs of the electrical pumps running extensively to warm the pool waters through the solar systems being utilized to affect that warming of the water. Now, we no longer warm our water as, in the past, we used propane to do so and stopped that as too expensive but we never substituted solar heating since we don´t give a damn about that accursed pool anyway and once one has been swimming vigorously for just a few minutes one warms up anyway at no charge, However, we did use solar heating on a pool we had in California prior to retiring down here and learned there that, while solar heating sounds efficient, one must still run those pumps in order to warm the water so we were only fooling ourselves. Not only that, one needs intense, warm sun to over time get the pool warm enough for a comfortable swim.

For those of you planning to move here, forget the swimming pool and consider it a negative when considering properties to buy. At Lake Chapala, it´s only warm enough to swim outside comfortably in April and May so get over it and buy a property without a pool. If I could get that pool out of here at a reasonable cost it would be history. I would remove that sucker and fill it in with rich dirt and grow radishes and turnips. YES!

DAWG....I love my pool, pool is 88 degrees today with solar power....put in a 2nd CFE meter, hired a electrician, Balanced power, I have 4300 sq. ft. home,
CFE bill averages 1500 pesos for 2 months. Very Cheap power

ferret wrote:Had a pool on the coast and will never ever consider owning another one...consider it a hole in the ground that you throw money into...somewhat along the same principle as a boat.

Dawg, if you don't want the pool then you might want to consider making it into an aljibe rather than digging it out.

I believe this is a totally personal thing, like food. We have a pool and a boat, enjoy both and wouldn’t want to be without either. Try to do only those things you really enjoy, Take Care & Merry Christmas!

Dawg - Let me speak to your post on swimming pools, time running and temperature. I have measured both extensively. Temperature of pool water depends on pump run time, number of solar panels and time of year. We only have 7 panels. Our pool is an irregular 14 ft x 28 ft pool, considered small. We vary our pump run time by season, approx 2 - 2 1/2 hours from December to mid February. 3 - 3 1/2 hours until the hot part of May, then cut to 3 hours the rest of the year. The pool should run between 2 1/2 to 3 hours daily to keep algae from forming. From December 1 thru Februay 15 you cannot get comfortable temps. From mid Feb thru December 1 temps are comfortable to swim. It runs about 85 - 90 degrees in April and May and about 80 the rest of the year.

ferret - I believe that most people want a pool and expect a house to have one. I also believe that it makes the house more saleable. The maintenance cost for my pool man 3 times a week including chemicals is $ 135 pesos a week. That's pocket change.

Thank you, John for some useful information. Our normal pool usage is between April and December so maybe we should consider rethinking solar heat for the pool and some energy saving ideas for the house. The old propane heat is out of the question for us but, what the hell, after the initial investment, the solar alternative just might make sense. A daily swim might just be a practical exercise alternative to the daily walk partially over irritating and challengingly uneven cobblestone streets.

Like you, as we age we must consider choices we need not have considered when we all moved here some ten years ago in better health. God´s little joke. I like to kid you about moving back NOB but I know it is not funny and is a decision you made of necessity. Good luck to you and your partner wherever you settle up north. No more Barstow jokes although it is not really such a bad town.

Z sounds like he knows his stuff as do several others here....trimm'n the fat so ta speak creates savings ....

I usually leave that stuff to the wife :) I just write the cheques....

Connie is on top of the new technologies where there is savings to be had.... she conferred with the neighbor over most things...

He's A SCOTSMAN!!

Ah yes

My family and I are from Maine and my fathers family came from Nova
Scocia and they don't call it New Scotland for nothing. Lord my family
can be cheap and I mean cheap.

I guess maybe I explain myself as far as power use goes. One of my
goals in Mexico is to only buy LP gas for the stove and a little for hot
water. I have been buying very efficient stuff for a while. Yes I do pay
more for a TV that only uses 80 watts. Payback isn't that bad on the
total package the way CFE charges here. I am in the process of designing
a portable PV (generates electricity from sun) system that plugs into
the wall and can be moved from one rental to another. I am also trying
to figure out how to make a portable hot water system but have not
managed to figure this one out. I already use solar panels to run my
outdoor music system for the yard with a AGM battery to store the juice
for night. I have designed a good quality stereo for the house that only
uses .7 amps when running so I can leave it on all day. Ok maybe I am
a geek as I get pleasure out of trying to lower my profile as far as I can.
What else does a tech geek have to do?

Anyhoo John you pay 7000 pesos/year for maint. on your pool plus electricity
and you consider the maint to be chump change?? We live in very very
different worlds. You have a pool I have a fountain. I have a toaster, blender,
and microwave and hardly use two out of the three. A pool is a need for a
house in your world? Wow I consider it a negative when I look at houses or
rentals and I don't think I am alone.

Z

Zed - Because of the remark you made about me considering the pool maintenance chump change. Yes I do. At todays exchange rate it's about $ 10 a week or $ 525 a year. I just looked at my 2011 yearly expenses. The only other items that are close to that for the year are the: Dining out, Maid, Gasoline and Propane. Telephone and Gardener fall into the 3000 pesos field.

I doubt you can get a pool man anywhere at Lakeside who supplies chemicals for 135 pesos a week. It all depends on what you enjoy. Different strokes for different folks. Some people waste that much or more on smoking or drinking booze.

I think your a direct descendant of a Scotsman and yes you are cheap! But I can't fault you for trying to save electricity. Keep up the good work.

Don't knock cheapness. It leads to invention.

What we're really talking about is a luxury, easily affordable ....or not. Some find it an unnecessary expense. IMO, the only dumb thing is accepting the expense and not using it regularly. If my house had come with one, it would have morphed into a garden rather speedily.

gringal wrote:Don't knock cheapness. It leads to invention.

What we're really talking about is a luxury, easily affordable ....or not. Some find it an unnecessary expense. IMO, the only dumb thing is accepting the expense and not using it regularly. If my house had come with one, it would have morphed into a garden rather speedily.

I once tried to explain the notion that Greed is good... and got poo poo'd from everyone for it...

Very little difference the way I see this... Prime Motivational Tool...

Show me someone who doesn't have a greedy streak in em... and I'll show U a saint or a lazy B*st*rd!!

hockables wrote:

gringal wrote:Don't knock cheapness. It leads to invention.

What we're really talking about is a luxury, easily affordable ....or not. Some find it an unnecessary expense. IMO, the only dumb thing is accepting the expense and not using it regularly. If my house had come with one, it would have morphed into a garden rather speedily.

I once tried to explain the notion that Greed is good... and got poo poo'd from everyone for it...

Very little difference the way I see this... Prime Motivational Tool...

Show me someone who doesn't have a greedy streak in em... and I'll show U a saint or a lazy B*st*rd!!

What's this? Our very own Gordon Gekko?

Zed, I'm with John on the pool. We have a fairly good sized one, plenty big enough for lap swimming, with 8 solar panels. We don't use it maybe two months out of the year. It is cleaned and chemicaled twice per week for the huge sum of $60 per month. It costs about that much more to run the pump. It is definitely a luxury. At our ages, the future is now. Swimming is something we both like to do and our frequent visitors from the U.S. and overseas hardly budge from poolside the whole time they are here.

We have been able to reduce both the gas and electric consumption of our place by about 25 percent. Next up is to go solar for both electric and hot water. Prices continue to fall on these systems and CFE continues to escalate its already ridiculous electric rates instead of rein in the corruption and the overpaid, underworked union labor. I predict that this area is going to have one of the highest solar uses in the world within 5 years. Because it has such a great advantage in this regard, it will just be a further attraction of the place.

There is a chasm between "cheapness" and "greed". Cheapness is not listed among the seven deadly sins. LOL.
Cheapness is rampant in Mexico, being a direct descendant of poverty. The light bulb in the store which only goes on when a customer enters. The rumored turning off of the freezers at night in a local super. And so on.
Greed goes a little farther....sometimes a lot further: i.e. Bernie Madoff and the gang.

gringal wrote:There is a chasm between "cheapness" and "greed". Cheapness is not listed among the seven deadly sins. LOL.
Cheapness is rampant in Mexico, being a direct descendant of poverty. The light bulb in the store which only goes on when a customer enters. The rumored turning off of the freezers at night in a local super. And so on.
Greed goes a little farther....sometimes a lot further: i.e. Bernie Madoff and the gang.

And then again there is a difference in being frugal and being cheap. IMHO Example; When going out to dinner one chooses one of the less expensive plates and probably no booze (frugal), then proceeds to tastes what everyone else has because it just looks so good and offers to help you finish your drink because it came in such a large glass (CHEAP) True story.

I'd like to think you're kidding, Parker, but I know you're not.....because I've had some experiences that go in that category. We went out to dinner with a couple to an upscale restaurant and they proceeded to order drinks, appetizers, desserts and cappucinos for themselves and then, when the bill came, they suggested we "split the bill".

That's cheap AND greedy. Happened more than once, along the same lines. Friends don't do that to friends. We either announce ahead that the meal is on us or ask for separate checks when we're out with our buds.