Life at Lakeside

Interesting article from Greg Cluster.

https://lakesidenewschapala.com/2022/12/19/looking-at-life-in-lakeside-guest-column-by-greg-custer/

While I thought that was a good article, he makes a couple of generalizations that I didn't particularly like. For instance, not all foreigners in Mexico are 6'4" tall and blond and immediately physically identifiable as foreigners. For instance, I just had an Airbnb guest from Canada, born in the UK, grew up in Canada, her parents were originally from India. Her facial features were such that she could have been any one of a dozen nationalities and told me she kept getting taken for Mexican in the month she had been on vacation here. (And a Mexican friend who lived in Canada for awhile told me people there assumed she was Native American)  Altho my guest isn't an expat, there's no reason she couldn't be in the future.
Also, there are tall, very light-skinned, light-haired Mexicans.

Nor is it "the land where it's rude to say I don't know"- that may be true to a large extent, and a cultural thing among some or many, but I've had many Mexicans tell me they don't know the answer to something I've asked.

I swear I read the same article in the late '90's. And I agree with Mudgirl about the generalizations. Be kind, be polite, assume nothing but try to communicate in the native language. Being flashy and arrogant will not earn you brownie points. Many Mexicans do understand some English so be careful what you say... more importanly how you say it. Even the Mexicans who don't understand English are experts in reading body language and tone.

I also don't agree with the "I owe Mexico" viewpoint. Just because I chose to move here and jumped through all the hoops necessary to do so, doesn't mean I "owe" Mexico. I learned Spanish because it's rather rude to move to another country and not bother oneself to learn the language, not to mention not speaking the native language making daily life and dealing with bureaucracy much more challenging. It also makes life much more insular and less interesting if you can't manage to carry on a conversation with Mexicans to gain some insight into their political and social views, discuss ideas with them, etc, instead of only speaking enough Spanish to get across to the cleaner and gardener what you'd like them to do.

No matter where one chooses to settle, even in your native country, it's always more interesting and enriching, to involve yourself in some community activities and projects, volunteer time to help those less fortunate or to improve the community, no matter whether you live in Mexico or Toronto, or Austin. It's not a matter of "owing", it's a matter of not just taking up space on the planet without giving as well as taking.

Well, I liked the article but I found more that it was almost a generalization that residents not Mexican tend to be rude, etc. Naturally the ignorant ones stand out & make more of an impression than the rest just going about their business.

Another generalization I see more & more of is those living in other areas of Mexico act somehow morally superior& more adventurous than those of us living in “Gringolandia.” That we aren’t living in the REAL Mexico.  The last one made me reply that I spent my younger years living in foreign to me cultures and now that I’m older I appreciate the ease of living here & the ability to get what I wanted easily as well as good medical care & nearby international airport. I also pointed out that Mexico was wonderful because it had areas to fit all needs.

Yes, while I live in the gringolandia and tourist trap of Sayulita, I live out in the countryside, rarely go into downtown, and don't spend my time eating out with fellow foreigners or attending gringo events, so I don't feel like I'm immersed in gringolandia. I like the fact that I'm an hour's drive from PV, where I can go to Costco, my good dentist, easily buy materials for my upholstery work, and have lots of shopping options, am a half hour from Bucerias, where the big grocery stores are, (although I buy most of my fruit and veggies locally) and if there were some emergency situation with one of my daughters or grandkids up north, I could be at the airport in an hour and back in Canada within half a day.
I did plenty of travelling in the boonies of Mexico in my younger days, living on beans and rice and Nescafe, but my current location and lifestyle suits me just fine.

There are far more Mexicans living in the Municipality of Chapala (and even Ajijic) than there are foreigners, so I never understood the term Gringolandia. Even my block in Ajijic Centro has more Mexicans than foreigners.

Well, there are more Mexicans than foreigners in every area which gringos gravitate to, I think. But there are many places in Mexico (in fact, most of it, in terms of square kilometers) where there aren't any foreigners at all, or only a smattering, almost no one speaks English, there aren't any stores or restaurants or businesses that cater to expats or tourists, so I do understand the "gringolandia" label.

I agree with Greg about the short pants. You can spot a gringo a block away due to the short pants. I'm sure Mexicans wear short pants but I don't remember seeing one doing so. I think it is disrespectful to the Mexican culture and in poor taste to wear them. I am sure most expat men will disagree with me but I wonder what the expat women think about the men wearing short pants?

It always surprised me this winter when I saw men walking in shorts on the Carretera because I was freezing. Now that you mention it I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Mexican man wearing shorts either. It never occurred to me that it might be disrespectful. I personally don’t own any shorts because I have skinny legs.

We shall see what ye say come May.

We've used the same maestro on our 2 houses since 2008.  He and his crew who all live in Ajijic never wore shorts until about 4 years ago.  All of a sudden el jefe and most of his crew started wearing shorts in summer.  Often they look to be cut off regular pants, usually to their knees (not any shorter).  

All the Tapatíos wear shorts here on the weekends, and have as long as I can remember.  We have always lived in Centro Ajijic and many homes around us are owned by TapatÍos. The past several years the men wear Madras shorts, takes me back to my youth when Madras was so popular in HS.

I have no problem with men of any nationality wearing shorts here as long as they are not gross short-shorts.  Cut to the top of the knee seems to be the length of choice for locals and Tapatíos.  

I wear skirts all spring and summer as they are frankly more comfortable and cooling than shorts...they can really catch those breezes

As far as women in shorts...few women over the age of 65 look great in shorts (or a skirt) cut above the knee.

The young Mexican guys in coastal areas wear surf shorts, but I've never seen Mexican men wear bermuda-type shorts like gringo guys.

A Canadian friend had a construction company here in Sayulita, with 2 Mexican business partners. My friend mentioned to his partners, near the beginning days of their business, how he couldn't believe how the crews could work in hot weather in jeans, which all of them did. His Mexican partner replied, quite adamantly, "Workers wear pants!"

There are 7 pages of "bermudas" for hombres at Liverpool's website; there are 5 pages at Coppel's.  

Bermuda is the name used at these Mexican sites.  

And again, we have lived among Tapatío homeowners here in Centro Ajijic and they wear bermudas in the summer!!  

And not just the homeowners, but the daytrippers as well.  Ajijic is jammed to the gills every weekend with Tapatíos and the men wear shorts in the summer.

Those of you who avoid Ajijic Centro on weekends due to the crowds (don't blame you) probably do not see this in Riberas or Mirasol, etc....but they are indeed here and have been wearing shorts since we first moved here in 2008, though it is far more common these days.  Just walk the Ajijic malecón any summer weekend!

rafterbr wrote:  I am sure most expat men will disagree with me but I wonder what the expat women think about the men wearing short pants?

I couldn't care less. What looks really dorky, though, is socks with sandals. And fanny packs.  

I don't think gringo guys wearing shorts is considered culturally disrespecful, at least I've never heard any Mexicans express such a thing in my 20 years here. Perhaps they think it looks silly, but not offensive. It's not like wearing shorts or skimpy clothing in a country where locals all dress quite modestly.

And small-town locals in Mexico tend to dress much more conservatively than city Mexicans. The girls with the skimpiest thong bikinis you see on the beach here tend to be Tapatios and Chilangos, not the gringas.

Much depends on the figure that's in the shorts.
Neither men or women who are seriously overweight should venture our in shorts and t-shirts for obvious reasons.

" I have no problem with men of any nationality wearing shorts here as long as they are not gross short-shorts."

Reminds me of my favorite Aussie-ism. They refer to a man's Speedo as a "budgie-smuggler".

gringal wrote:Much depends on the figure that's in the shorts.
Neither men or women who are seriously overweight should venture our in shorts and t-shirts for obvious reasons.

I think people should wear whatever they feel comfortable in, as long as it isn't disrespectful to the cultural mores they are living amongst. It may not always be pretty to look at, but you can always avert your eyes.

Go down to the Malecon on the weekends if you want to see Mexican men wearing shorts or come by my place and meet my gardener. He always wears shorts when it is warm out.

I some times think Tapatios aren't real Mexicans.

Oh, don't tell them that. They already have an inferiority complex because they aren't Chilangos. :-)
A Mexican friend of mine who grew up in Guadalajara says she left there because they're all such arrogant brats.

Of course, that's not fair as an across the board generalization. I've met Tapatios who are really nice people. But more who aren't.

I hibernate at home on the weekends due to the invasion so I’m not around them much. Here, the problem is just the vast numbers of them.

mudgirl wrote:Oh, don't tell them that. They already have an inferiority complex because they aren't Chilangos. :-)
A Mexican friend of mine who grew up in Guadalajara says she left there because they're all such arrogant brats.

Of course, that's not fair as an across the board generalization. I've met Tapatios who are really nice people. But more who aren't.

Not anymore than some of the xpats I have met here. I go to guad around 1 time a month and have had wonderful treatment and conversations with locals there.

You seem to hate on alot of the people who were born in this fine country. And others seem to agree with your hateful words.

Mexicoafterlife wrote:

mudgirl wrote:Oh, don't tell them that. They already have an inferiority complex because they aren't Chilangos. :-)
A Mexican friend of mine who grew up in Guadalajara says she left there because they're all such arrogant brats.

Of course, that's not fair as an across the board generalization. I've met Tapatios who are really nice people. But more who aren't.

Not anymore than some of the xpats I have met here. I go to guad around 1 time a month and have had wonderful treatment and conversations with locals there.

You seem to hate on alot of the people who were born in this fine country. And others seem to agree with your hateful words.

I don’t find that last sentence to be true at all.

mudgirl wrote:Oh, don't tell them that. They already have an inferiority complex because they aren't Chilangos. :-)
A Mexican friend of mine who grew up in Guadalajara says she left there because they're all such arrogant brats.

Of course, that's not fair as an across the board generalization. I've met Tapatios who are really nice people. But more who aren't.

That is certainly not my experience. The Tapatios are some of the best guests we get. Never a problem and always polite and appreciative. I have had drinks with many at our local watering hole and they are always a fun crowd.