The Newbie Invasion is Real

gringal wrote:There's a huge gap between "impoverished" and "rich", wouldn't you agree?  I've lived in CA most of my life.  The COL got ahead of many people I knew.  Yes, they had homes, but most were heavily mortgaged.
If you're aware of what rents are in Silicon Valley and SanFrancisco, you can see where those who don't own homes already (even with the high CA taxes) are priced out of the place in retirement.
The one group who leaves CA with a chunk of change (not enough to buy a house in CA) are those who sold their property and have enough left to buy one in Mexico.  With a decent SSA income, they can also afford to rent if they choose.

You are the one who used the term impoverished. So, you are talking about people who have resources but not enough to maintain a California lifestyle in retirement. However, they can live high on the hog in Mexico. They are not coming to the culture, language, and people but to a standard of living they can otherwise not afford. Or, as Trailrunner said, more Mainecoons.

"Impoverished" is relative. When prices are so high that people can't afford a dinner out or a movie.....that's getting there. "High on the hog" is a wonderful expression relating to the best part of the pig, and I don't really know how high most expats can afford to live. There's the folks who patronized restaurant #4, and those who settled for ordinary eats out.

Why would the people you describe be anything like Mainecoons?
What's the connection? What makes you believe they are not going to do their best to learn Spanish and appreciate the culture?
I always wait to see how people behave before judging them.

Mainecoons is, essentially, a Texan who sold his property up north for a very high price. His attitudes don't reflect all Texans, but they aren't typical of people coming from the more liberal states...like CA.

I have never brought this up before, but I think what will cause the big shakeout here is the weather. April, May, June, most of July were nice - hot but nice. Warm enough to heat the swimming pools Then the so called rainy season, which is summertime N.O.B. When those clouds move in it is chilly, then the clouds break, then it is muggy, all with a constant back drop of mosquitoes and flies. Many restaurants are impossible to enjoy this time of the year because of all the flies. Then it starts to dry up, and gets even more chilly, at least for many of the older homes I have visited. The so called 'snowbirds" coming November to March are going to be in for a big surprise - if - and many of them do - have drank the Koolaid and think of Chapala weather as a sort of a year round mild Southern California, but much more affordable. When they are shuffling around in sweats and fleece on days which don't get any higher than 68F, and that is late in the day, they may very well rethink their choices. You can say "Ha ha -it beats snow", etc, but the biggest hype here has always been the weather. You can tell people this, but until they personally experience it, they will not believe it.

Then there is the healthcare issue. I have had plenty of experience lately with private specialists and Seguro Popular, Mexico's universal healthcare system. I have no problem with their facilities, services, and honest dedication - but it is a steep learning curve trying to figure everything out. For example you need 10 copies of your CURP, 10 copies of your INM card, 10 copies of your contract - everytime you walk in the door.

I say let them come and give me double what I paid for my place.....Viva Mexico!!

I like Gringals posts. She is informative and not judgemental. Same with Pete, nice people.

I've seen WAY too many of those idiots moving here on Facebook.  Remember my post about the gringa who was told to slap the little bean seller girl who touched her toast at Cafe Negro?  That's the type  and they're not in the minority of what the incoming flood of imports are like.  I have high hopes they're not going to stay.  Without even being here they will argue about a fact regarding living here if it's not what they want to hear.

They are having get-togethers where they can spread more misinformation among themselves.  Trailrunner is right on the money in what she says about this bunch.  You wouldn't believe it unless you read it yourself. That said, of course not all will be like that but too many are.

Re the Ajijic comments.  Those of us who CHOSE not to live there also get tired of our neighborhoods being regarded as slums and that's a lot more common than any slams about Ajijic.  I don't give a rip about future property values but when some people complain constantly about cohetes, loud music, potholes, bad sidewalks and dog poo and unleashed pets, I have to smile to myself because guess where the source of these complaints is?  Ajijic.  For those who love Ajijic, good for you. Glad you found your little piece of paradise as did I.  When it's totally quiet in my little corner of Riberas, I sleep without worrying about a band playing at 3:00 AM or cohetes when it's St. Herbert's feast day.

hahahaha St. Herbert! lol For some reason I don't remember him from Catholic school daze. . .

I've been watching and dreading this coming trend for some months now. Unless you have read the Facebook stuff these people are posting, well you wouldn't believe it. And yes, indications that many of them are contentious, badly misinformed, and sorry...just plain idiots. When I keep seeing posts on the rental site on Facebook with these people posting "can I find a rental for $18,000.00 to $30,000.00 pesos per month", and then of course the corresponding offers for just that.... I shiver. They are the same properties that would have rented for a fraction of those amounts a few short months ago. A one bedroom, tiny condo I know of that rented for $6000.00 per month recently became available. Within 2 weeks it was rented out for $13,000.00. Pity all of us without that kind of cash. Canadians will have an even more difficult time. But worse off of all, will be the Mexicans...along with the tight and expensive rental market, I am noticing prices in general rising rapidly and greatly.

Choosing neighborhoods: When I came to the Lake Chapala area, I chose a "buyers' agent" (I know, joke) to show us around the area.  Didn't know about any of the neighborhoods, just named a top price and went where she took us; everywhere from Chapala to Racquet Club, the latter being a turnoff for us with only one tiny house in our price range and too pretentions by half.  Since then, I met some people who lived there who were just fine, so I was too quick to judge. My bad.  Saw very few other places in our range; in fact, it was just before the housing bust and everything was as high as it could get.

Finally, she showed us a centrally located wreck that was hard to love, but we tackled it.  It happened to be in Ajijic Centro near the lake, and that was the attraction.  We would have been just as happy living in any other town around here.  We'd been living in a lower priced Mexican barrio in San Miguel de Allende for years, so were over the newbie stage.

Now, I'm having some doubts about the future of the whole area.  Whether the mass of newbies are going to turn out to be nice people who will stay and become an asset or jerks who will have a negative impact remains to be seen, but the one truth is that there is going to be a much more crowded place. Added to that, Ajijic is now overrun on weekends by Guadalajarans who are having a grand time with the closed streets and al fresco dining.
Can't say I blame anyone for escaping the big city when they can.

Much more in population growth and tourism, and it may get to be time to get out of Dodge.  However, this has happened to me over and over during my own lifetime: finding a great place and then having it "discovered"; followed by it being overcrowded, overpriced and not so nice anymore.  However, we can't stop the tide.
Good luck to all of us.  Bob's practical $$$ take has a lot to be said for it.  Finally, there are other nice places to live in Mexico if this one goes off the livability scale.

CanuckBob wrote:I say let them come and give me double what I paid for my place.....Viva Mexico!!

Wish you luck CB - but the house you sold in Vancouver to move here has probably already done that!

coffeeguy wrote:One post will be from someone who probably just got their first passport begging for an all-inclusive rental ("with pool and 50 MBPS internet, pet-friendly") for November through April under $1300 a month, while the next one will be some hapless local (i.e. Mexican) trying to find a place for their family for 2000-4000 pesos.

My wife & I left Chapala (Riberas del Pilar) after four years. We're still in Jalisco, but more than glad that we left, because we found amenities elsewhere more to our liking and more economical. We have rented a 2-bedroom, 2-bath (with bathtubs) house that has a small yard and large garage. We pay $1,500 MXN. I agree that things will [probably] get worse in your area. (Many of the shop-owners and our neighbors here speak English, and that hinders our learning of Spanish!)

Lehrer wrote:

coffeeguy wrote:One post will be from someone who probably just got their first passport begging for an all-inclusive rental ("with pool and 50 MBPS internet, pet-friendly") for November through April under $1300 a month, while the next one will be some hapless local (i.e. Mexican) trying to find a place for their family for 2000-4000 pesos.

My wife & I left Chapala (Riberas del Pilar) after four years. We're still in Jalisco, but more than glad that we left, because we found amenities elsewhere more to our liking and more economical. We have rented a 2-bedroom, 2-bath (with bathtubs) house that has a small yard and large garage. We pay $1,500 MXN. I agree that things will [probably] get worse in your area. (Many of the shop-owners and our neighbors here speak English, and that hinders our learning of Spanish!)

If I remember right, didn't you move to the South side of the lake? How is it over there in general?

Lehrer wrote:

coffeeguy wrote:One post will be from someone who probably just got their first passport begging for an all-inclusive rental ("with pool and 50 MBPS internet, pet-friendly") for November through April under $1300 a month, while the next one will be some hapless local (i.e. Mexican) trying to find a place for their family for 2000-4000 pesos.

My wife & I left Chapala (Riberas del Pilar) after four years. We're still in Jalisco, but more than glad that we left, because we found amenities elsewhere more to our liking and more economical. We have rented a 2-bedroom, 2-bath (with bathtubs) house that has a small yard and large garage. We pay $1,500 MXN. I agree that things will [probably] get worse in your area. (Many of the shop-owners and our neighbors here speak English, and that hinders our learning of Spanish!)

Thank you for your post, Lehrer, I love Tizapan! So much so, that it will be my move to village if needed. Lucky you, enjoy.

CHILLIN wrote:

CanuckBob wrote:I say let them come and give me double what I paid for my place.....Viva Mexico!!

Wish you luck CB - but the house you sold in Vancouver to move here has probably already done that!

It has definitely gone up but not double. We sold in the first peak there in 2011. Being in both the ownership and vacation rental business here in Ajijic I have quite a different perspective from many here. I'm also at the lower end of the age range and probably will move at least one or two more times before the end is near.........

gringal wrote:If I remember right, didn't you move to the South side of the lake?  How is it over there in general?

Yes, we moved to Tizapán el Alto almost 7 years ago. "Prudence Palace" had four bedrooms and four baths, with off-street parking, at a cost of $375 USD. We were there about a year and then moved to Mismaloya. After the move, we found out from Dr. Béjar (the owner) that Prudence was paying only $400 USD for her place and the four-bedroom place together. She was out only $25 USD for her living quarters. (!)
Mismaloya lasted about two months, because we couldn't receive internet service (except dial-up) and the landlady was always asking for a "loan" that we could deduct from next month's rent. We didn't fall for that. She changed out the refrigerator before we moved in, which we thought was no big deal, but one day she showed up with some folks who wanted to buy the kitchen range and refrigerator, leaving us with nothing! That was the last straw, so we moved back to Tizapán el Alto. The owner of the property that we were previously renting (from Prudence) showed us a 2-bedroom, 2-bath house (with enclosed garage) just across from the soccer field. It belonged to his sister, and we agreed upon $2,500 MXN. We were there about two years but decided to move because of a leaky roof and unreliable water-heating system. (When we moved in, I discovered that the hot-water and cold-water lines to "my" bathroom were reversed and had to be changed out. The toilet tank was filling with hot water! [Can you say, "Hot $h1t"?])
In the meantime, Prudence had moved out of the "palace," so we moved back there for the same money ($2,500 MXN). After two years, the stairs got to be too much for us old folks, plus Dr. Béjar wanted to up the rent because the dollar was outpacing the peso. Thus, we moved again (a little more than a year ago) into this house where we are now, thanks to some friends we had made over the years. The owners are related to our friends and live in the United States. The house was standing empty. I thought it was worth more than the $1,500 MXN they asked, but they didn't want any more than that.
Add to that the fact that the townspeople are concerned about us. When Maria had a kidney infection last year and was unable to walk the dog with me, folks were asking about her. A couple of ladies stopped by the house to check on her and to find out how she was doing. Lately, because I don't get out of the house very much, folks asked Maria if I was okay. So we kind of lucked out here and we are very satisfied.

Retards on Parade

Bubba2shoes wrote:Retards on Parade

You're my hero!

In my perspective, any town around the lake is still dominated by Mexicans, whether it's government, religion, commerce, or any other category.
The Mexicans are like the land, not going anywhere, and the foreigners are like snow or snowflakes and some will melt rapidly in the sun and others, in the shade will last longer and a few others like the tip of the mountain in Colima, much longer.
Sure they have their clubs, organizations, groups, whatever, and they do make some impact, but for the most part, they operate in a parallel universe from most Mexicans.
I don't belong to or know anything about most of these foreign dominated activities and neither does most Mexicans of any class.....a few yes.
We are concerned about school, jobs, cost of living, crime, traffic (grid locks in GDL are common), and a lot of other issues, that have nothing to do with the foreign influx.
There are plenty of places to shop or rent, that are not affected by foreigners and let them spend their money if the traffic will bear it.
Over pricing is a form of socialism.  
I was with the usual large family weekend gathering today, and is the case most of time, the foreign presence in Mexico isn't even mentioned in conversations.

Totally agree. A parallel universe for sure.

"The Mexicans are like the land, not going anywhere, and the foreigners are like snow or snowflakes and some will melt rapidly in the sun and others, in the shade will last longer and a few others like the tip of the mountain in Colima, much longer." (Slainte)

Slainte:  that was downright poetic!  And also, true.
I think some people are overly worried about the influx of NOB people, perhaps similar to U.S. residents during the influx of the many Europeans in the 1800's.
The curious thing is that it's the expats doing the worrying rather than the natives. Yes, it will cause changes, but change is more normal than a static condition.  My observation is that the happiest people are those who are flexible.
Your family gatherings seem like the way things "should" be.  When my parents moved to the U.S. west coast during my infancy, I could see they had a sense of loss away from their large extended families. It was obvious when they attended the periodic reunions, but for various reasons, todays' families tend to be scattered all over the country and years sometimes pass before they see one another. It's sad.

Lakeside is a minestrone soup with 3 groups , the tapatios the foreigners and the only non floaters the locals and the 3 really do not mix much... .

Sainte is right the foreigners are not mentioned as a rule , we think we are way more important or have way more influence than we do.. see how much influence the Mexicans have on most of us.. very little.. so we eat tacos.. how many of us know the culture or speak Spanish.. and even if we do it is not our culture and the influence is small m yeas sometimes our attitude is changed some but the fact is that the 3 groups remain very distinct and do not mix
.

brigitte wrote:Lakeside is a minestrone soup with 3 groups , the tapatios the foreigners and the only non floaters the locals and the 3 really do not mix much... .

Needs more garlic.

Bubba2shoes wrote:So,Defarge,, move to Chiapas.It's cheap here and a fine 400 plus year old city of distinct colonial architecture and charm.  No one speaks English but what is there to say, anyway except "Otra tequila, por favor" and "Cuanto cuesta?".

Already started building in Guanajuato City, found a lot last year that was vacant, five minute walk from Centro and held by a family for 60 years. The owner married a woman from Zacatecas, and she and the future generations just wouldn't leave Zac.

Colonial city, lots of entertainment and dining. Lots of tourism, but mostly Mexicans coming to see a key city in their history. Its a UNESCO world heritage city, so lots of security, public works and daily sanitation. Always being maintained. About 800-1000 expats in a community of 150K, Spanish is the language, and no effort to change that.

The hills and stairs are good for my health, but luckily, our callejon is plano and only a few stairs to get to the lot. Lots of cabs and busses to get me to outlying areas.

Our Ajijic house is now a long term rental, the casita portion of the GTO build is now ready and we are occupying it while casa principal is being built. Majority of friends are Mexican with limited English, so my Spanish improves daily, even expat friends prefer Spanish to improve language skills. Always get approving nods when we do business in Spanish, and the locals are so patient in helping me muddle though a conversation. I'm NOB now, trying to tie up loose ends here, figuring what to do with real estate investments here, while my wife takes 15 credits at the U of G ( Go Abejas!) in Spanish language, history and literature.

We just wanted something bigger than lakeside, with more to do. GTO filled that desire.

But I do think Mexico and other countries with lower overall cost of living will continue to see increases in Americans relocating. When you start doing the math and see stagnant wages and potential loss or cost increases of future benefits, people start to wonder how they'll make it on SS in the states. Sadly a BankRate study published in Forbes showed 60% of Americans currently don't have access to $2K in cash, if they need money, they have to borrow or put the purchase on a card. We were proactive 7 years ago, not politically motivated, but influenced by practical financial reasons. And we wanted to enjoy what Mexico offers in a lifestyle change! Win / win for us.

gringal wrote:
...The curious thing is that it's the expats doing the worrying rather than the natives.

Sounds kinda like Hispanics who support Trump.

I remember Prudence , she would travel to the Raquect Club to play tennis..help me remember more, was she married why did they move to the South Side

I remember Prudence too. And the house. 

Wasn't she taking care of Tad recently?