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Post by JayBear on Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:38 pm

From the Huffington Post today:

Mexico’s Supreme Court voted 4 to 1 on Wednesday that members of a cannabis club are allowed to grow marijuana for their personal use, a potentially significant blow to laws restricting drug use in the country.

The club members -- Josefina Ricarño, Armando Santacruz, José Pablo Girault and Juan Francisco Torres Landa Ruffo -- had applied for a license from Mexico's drug regulatory office, but were denied. They appealed that denial to the Supreme Court, which ruled that the four members were allowed to grow, transport and use marijuana for recreational purposes.

Although the decision does not legalize marijuana across Mexico, it could provide a legal path for advocates and groups who oppose marijuana prohibition to continue challenging restrictions in the future. It sets the stage for a wide-ranging challenge to laws restricting marijuana by finding that prohibiting the recreational consumption of weed contradicts constitutional guarantees of personal freedom.

"This vote by Mexico’s Supreme Court is extraordinary for two reasons: it is being argued on human rights grounds and it is taking place in one of the countries that has suffered the most from the war on drugs," Hannah Hetzer, senior policy manager of the Americas at the Drug Policy Alliance, said in a statement. "Now with this landmark decision out of Mexico, it is clear that the Americas are leading the world in marijuana reform."

Marijuana use remains controversial in Mexico, however. A survey released in October by Mexican pollster Parametría found that only 20 percent of Mexicans favored legalizing marijuana for recreational use, though some 81 percent said they supported legalizing it for medical use. Only 4 percent of respondents said they would smoke weed if it were legal.

It’s the latest in a series of shifts in the Americas away from past policies of the war on drugs, violence from which has killed an estimated 100,000 people in Mexico since 2006.

In 2012, Colorado and Washington became the first states to legalize marijuana in the U.S. Another two states and Washington, D.C., joined them two years later. Uruguay legalized marijuana in 2013 and moved to create the world’s first national marijuana marketplace, but there have been some hold-ups. Earlier this year Chile harvested its first crop of government-approved medical marijuana. And in what was seen as a significant rejection of a key American tactic to fight against the growing of cocaine in Latin America, the government of Colombia halted aerial fumigation of the country’s illegal coca fields, the plant used to make cocaine, on fears that the spray was linked to causing cancer. And just last month, Justin Trudeau was elected as Canada's new prime minister on a promise to end marijuana prohibition in the country.

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Post by Chapalagringa on Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:49 pm

I'm interested and hope it's legalized for medicinal purposes soon. I can't stand big pharma.
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Post by kiko on Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:33 pm

Contrary to the approach legalization has taken in the US, I found it interesting that in Mexico the case was centered on human rights. From the LA Times>

"Arturo Zaldivar, the Supreme Court justice who backed the application and is considered a liberal by many, argued that Mexico’s laws against the personal use and consumption of marijuana are unconstitutional because they suppress the rights of individuals to do as they choose.

“The responsible decision taken to experiment with the effects of this substance — whatever personal harm it might do — belongs within the autonomy of the individual, protected by their freedom to develop themselves,” Zaldivar said."

The US is the leader in the free world for human rights? Duh.

Of course do not forget that the the big pharma companies in the US sell in excess of $100,000,000,000/year in chemo drugs for cancer. Yes, that number is $100 Billion.

You can buy guns, liquor, cigarettes and kill yourself or others, but you do not have the option to treat your cancer with THC. Thanks Roche.

Roche #1 in US Oncology drug sales.

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000042474

Connect the dots folks, this is not rocket science.

Maybe someday when you or yours wakes up one morning with cancer, your oncologist will give you the great news that although it is not curable, it is treatable. The treatment is one tablet at $750/day and your insurer determines that it is not a "medical necessity".

Or how about this scenario, you go in for a scan and the radiologist tells you are 85% clean, no tumors, no worries. Well what about the other 15% Dr.? Well, there is an additional scan we can do that is 100% comprehensive, but at the stage of cancer you have, your insurer does not feel that it is a "medical necessity." When you reach Stage 4 level of cancer, they will pay for that test or you can pay now. Stage 5, Google Translate it in any language=Dead.

I bet the president of the health insurance companies gets the second scan first time around.

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Post by Zedinmexico on Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:46 am

Just came back from Washington/Oregon and it was very strange to see ads for Pot shops in the Paper in Seattle. They were even having a sale. I noticed that the price had come down to street value which makes sense in a consumer point of view.  Oregon just legalized it also. Watching students smoking in the garage under the holiday inn in Oregon and not hide it when we came by was strange. It was kinda hard to hide anyway cause it stinks so much.

Human rights an interesting way to deal with this. Not so sure also USA is number one in human rights issues either.  How about the constitutional free zone all around our borders.  Guess having due process is not a human right in these places and these places cover 1/3 of all folks in US.

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Post by brigitte on Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:51 am

Yes the Human Rights angle is interesting especially here.

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Post by viajero on Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:51 am

Zedinmexico wrote: I noticed that the price had come down to street value which makes sense in a consumer point of view.
What's the street value there?
In Guadalajara it's about 100 pesos per ounce.

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Post by Zedinmexico on Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:32 am

viajero wrote:
Zedinmexico wrote: I noticed that the price had come down to street value which makes sense in a consumer point of view.
What's the street value there?
In Guadalajara it's about 100 pesos per ounce.


300USD (sale price) per ounce for Uber Stinky bud was 400USD when they started. Smaller quantities much higher.  Supply has caught up with demand so price goes down. Young people can buy it cheaper on street in Seattle although the cops are cracking down now trying to force people to buy legal or medical MJ. Quality is better than local stuff for the most part to compare. Old people tend to pay more for pot in PNW. Still against the law in both states to smoke in public or grow.

Z

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Post by viajero on Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:45 am

Zedinmexico wrote:
viajero wrote:
Zedinmexico wrote: I noticed that the price had come down to street value which makes sense in a consumer point of view.
What's the street value there?
In Guadalajara it's about 100 pesos per ounce.


300USD (sale price) per ounce for Uber Stinky bud was 400USD when they started. Smaller quantities much higher.  Supply has caught up with demand so price goes down. Young people can buy it cheaper on street in Seattle although the cops are cracking down now trying to force people to buy legal or medical MJ. Quality is better than local stuff for the most part to compare. Old people tend to pay more for pot in PNW. Still against the law in both states to smoke in public or grow.

Z
Yeah,I'm sure the quality is better there,but it's getting better here and 8 bucks an ounce beats the heck out of 300 bucks an ounce. NOT that any of you are interested but... 169387

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Post by CanuckBob on Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:51 am

The price NOB will plummet if Canada federally legalizes recreational use marijuana. Every Tom, Dick and Harry Pothead will have a small grow op in the garage or basement. In some of the legalized states in the US they are letting people grow their own too. marijuana will become as cheap as tobacco.
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Post by gringal on Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:12 pm

CanuckBob wrote:The price NOB will plummet if Canada federally legalizes recreational use marijuana. Every Tom, Dick and Harry Pothead will have a small grow op in the garage or basement. In some of the legalized states in the US they are letting people grow their own too. marijuana will become as cheap as tobacco.

I'm all in favor of legalizing anything and everything. Let everyone go to hell is his/her own way. If they're stoned and have a traffic accident....same treatment as alcohol abusers. There's probably truth in the rumor that a pot-stoned bunch in a bar is much more mellow than a bunch of drunks on booze.

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Post by viajero on Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:35 pm

gringal wrote:

I'm all in favor of legalizing anything and everything.  Let everyone go to hell is his/her own way.  If they're stoned and have a traffic accident....same treatment as alcohol abusers.  There's probably truth in the rumor that a pot-stoned bunch in a bar is much more mellow than a bunch of drunks on booze.
I am definitley not in favor of legalizing anything and everything.
And the rumor you mentioned is not a rumor,it's a fact.

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Post by gringal on Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:29 pm

viajero wrote:
gringal wrote:

I'm all in favor of legalizing anything and everything.  Let everyone go to hell is his/her own way.  If they're stoned and have a traffic accident....same treatment as alcohol abusers.  There's probably truth in the rumor that a pot-stoned bunch in a bar is much more mellow than a bunch of drunks on booze.
I am definitley not in favor of legalizing anything and everything.
And the rumor you mentioned is not a rumor,it's a fact.

The reason I say "anything and everything" is that people who want hard drugs are getting them anyway, regardless of the laws passed.

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Post by kipissippi on Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:54 pm

In some cases making something "legal" takes the fun and excitement out of it.  How can you be a rebel if what you're doing is also being done legally..even by your granny! Very Happy Beer
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Post by brigitte on Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:30 pm

Do not worry kip there is still heroin , cocaine, meth just to mention a few..

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Post by kipissippi on Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:43 pm

If all of them were legalized.... I think maybe natural selection might kick in.
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Post by Zedinmexico on Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:46 pm

viajero wrote:
Zedinmexico wrote:
viajero wrote:
Zedinmexico wrote: I noticed that the price had come down to street value which makes sense in a consumer point of view.
What's the street value there?
In Guadalajara it's about 100 pesos per ounce.


300USD (sale price) per ounce for Uber Stinky bud was 400USD when they started. Smaller quantities much higher.  Supply has caught up with demand so price goes down. Young people can buy it cheaper on street in Seattle although the cops are cracking down now trying to force people to buy legal or medical MJ. Quality is better than local stuff for the most part to compare. Old people tend to pay more for pot in PNW. Still against the law in both states to smoke in public or grow.

Z
Yeah,I'm sure the quality is better there,but it's getting better here and 8 bucks an ounce beats the heck out of 300 bucks an ounce. NOT that any of you are interested but... 169387


Absolutely agree.

Z

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Post by Zedinmexico on Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:50 pm

Talking to a state trooper and he said he would rather do a Greatful Dead concert than one Pac 12 football game. He said the Deadheads were much mellower than the football fans. Drunks can be anything. Pothead will fall asleep on the couch with a bag of half eaten oreos while watching Wizard of Ox while playing Dark side of the moon from pink Floyd. Start the album at the roar of the MGM lion. He was a very cool state trooper.

Z

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Post by viajero on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:07 pm

Zedinmexico wrote:Talking to a state trooper and he said he would rather do a Greatful Dead concert than one Pac 12 football game.  He said the Deadheads were much mellower than the football fans.He was a very cool state trooper.

Z
Well that is refreshing.
They could use more state troopers like him.

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Post by viajero on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:36 pm

brigitte wrote:Do not worry kip there is still  heroin , cocaine, meth just to mention a few..

kipissippi wrote:  If all of them were legalized.... I think maybe natural selection might kick in.
Hmm,natural selection,,given the FACT that a very  close family member of mine was murdered by a crazy meth head at an upscale mall in broad daylight in a robbery I just don't agree with the idea of making it easier than it already is to access that type of drug.

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Post by Zedinmexico on Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:09 am

Meth is a pretty bad thing folks.  When Meth hit out old neighborhood next to downtown the cops gave me a gun to public carry when I patrolled.  We lost all our families with children and the neighborhood became a retirement neighborhood.  We left. Neighborhood without children is no good.  Before homeless were nice and we knew them all. Meth changed things. Sorry for your loss Viajero but I do understand. I have seen the skinny, rotten teeth, bad skin, horny men and women that meth caused. I heard later the state went in and moved everybody out (to where??) and took out a big truck load of biological waste and a dump truck full of rotten blankets, tents and such. So sad to lose a great neighborhood to Meth heads. It was such a great community before meth.
Sigh....

Z

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Post by gringal on Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:12 am

There are some horrible results of drug addiction. I don't think the addicts obtained those drugs legally, but they found them easily anyway.
Question: what is the point of the drugs being illegal, if that's the case?

Each person makes a deliberate decision to try dangerous drugs. If society wants the dangerous drug use to stop, the clue may be in massive education about the end results aimed at young minds still in the formative stage. I don't mean the kind of phony scare tactics re a relatively harmless drug like marijuana, just truth about other substances and the possible end results for most addicts.

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Post by viajero on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:02 am

gringal wrote:There are some horrible results of drug addiction.  I don't think the addicts obtained those drugs legally, but they found them easily anyway.
Question:  what is the point of the drugs being illegal, if that's the case?
The point is why them make them more easily accessible,do you really want the crazy in line in front of you at the 7/11 buying a gram of meth.
I speak from personal experience,it's a bad idea in my opinion.

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Post by brigitte on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:27 pm

I do not think there is a solution unless you have a dictatorship like the Chinese. When it came time to deal with opium they gave as much as they wanted to the old folks who ended up dying a little sooner..and sent all the young folks that wer users to work camps and that took care of the problem..
I do not know about opium but I do know several people who got off heroin cold turkey and they told me it was the most horrible thing they had ever experienced.  
I think a whole lot more programs need to be put him place for people who want to get off.
I know a young man here in Ajijic who was a heavy meth user and he totally lost his mind and had to go to an institution. He ended up getting out of it , he is now clean but his mind is gone. It is very sad to see how quickly he lost it.
I agree meth should not be legal amd their should be place where the addicts could be put in until they are clean..forget the jails those do not help.

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Post by CanuckBob on Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:18 pm

brigitte wrote:I do not think there is a solution unless you have a dictatorship like the Chinese. When it came time to deal with opium they gave as much as they wanted to the old folks who ended up dying a little sooner..and sent all the young folks that wer users to work camps and that took care of the problem..
I do not know about opium but I do know several people who got off heroin cold turkey and they told me it was the most horrible thing they had ever experienced.  
I think a whole lot more programs need to be put him place for people who want to get off.
I know a young man here in Ajijic who was a heavy meth user and he totally lost his mind and had to go to an institution. He ended up getting out of it , he is now clean but his mind is gone. It is very sad to see how quickly he lost it.
I agree meth should not be legal amd their should be place where the addicts could be put in until they are clean..forget the jails those do not help.

Meth is the scourge of the drug world and producers/dealers of this product should be given the maximum penalty that the country allows. And because of it's low cost and lengthy high it has become the drug of choice for the poorer youth in this area. I see this crap all over the place at the local bars.
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Post by slainte39 on Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:42 pm

You definitely have to draw a line after mj, and especially about meth. Saying someone made a deliberate decision is a cop out for inaction to help someone who lacks the maturity or is subject to peer pressure to make good decisions.  Education should be part of the solution but stricter enforcement is needed as well....and now. Education is long term.

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