why DO people leave?

Gee, it's nice to learn that I must be richer than the folks up on the hill in Las Salvias, Rancho del Oro, Racquet CluB, or the gated place John in Ajijic used to live in !!!  I know it must be true, since I live in the VILLAGE.

Some people will believe ANYTHING. I'll have to let my Mexican neighbor know how rich he is, too.

perritonegro you seem to confuse people who actually renounce their US citizenship to the US so they can escape the taxes and people who renounce their citizenship while living in mexico and are dual national.  Reason for my citizenship is that  I live in Mexico and wanted to continue to do so..it is not complicated.

By the way the number of people renouncing their US citizenship is very small. thenumber is growning but it is still extremely small and most of the people are not retired people for obvious reasons.

gringal wrote:Gee, it's nice to learn that I must be richer than the folks up on the hill in Las Salvias, Rancho del Oro, Racquet CluB, or the gated place John in Ajijic used to live in !!!  I know it must be true, since I live in the VILLAGE.

Some people will believe ANYTHING.  I'll have to let my Mexican neighbor know how rich he is, too.

Jajaja.....no kidding. What was it that PT Barnum said?

Now pass the caviar and Dom Perignon will ya!!!!

Actually many of us so called rich folks in Las Salvias are renters taking advantage of the bad real estate market in Ajijic. I don't see much difference in folks between where CB and Gringal live on the flats in Ajijic and us folks way high on the hill. Some people have money some folks are waiting for Social Security check each month in both places.

Silly debate. The money is in the gated communities. The homes are grand, have expansive views, no squalor, no unsightly businesses, next door neighbor does not live in a hovel, wide streets, no noise/eventos/skyrockets etc. So which villge is nicer, has more money? Who cares? But why do the wealthy leave? Boredom or health.

Actually in west Ajijic I would say the rich live on the lake and are Mexicans.. I should correct they do not live there , they have huge week-end houses.

I'm just thrilled for the chance ta rub shoulders and shoot the shit with The Ajijic Crowd... I usually bring along my camera so I can show the pictures to my friends  ....  

I left Ajijic in order to get away from the Village People. Now I live in Chapala. My Spanish has improved considerably and I feel about 20 years younger. Oh yeah, I'm an old gringo too...just don't need to be reminded of it all day long.

You must be pretty bored Hockables.

brigitte wrote:You must be pretty bored Hockables.

At this very moment it's raining cats & dogs, and has pretty much shut down my plans for the day...

I was going to trench in power lines for a garden shed and a trailer pad up on the hill....



truthfully... I rarely visit Ajijic ... to expensive for my budget

Zedinmexico wrote:Actually many of us so called rich folks in Las Salvias are renters taking advantage of the bad real estate market in Ajijic. I don't see much difference in folks between where CB and Gringal live on the flats in Ajijic  and us folks way high on the hill. Some people have money some folks are waiting for Social Security check each month in both places.

Zed, renting is one thing, but just for the fun of it, check the real estate prices in your neighborhood, even in this depressed market. Gotta have some serious bucks to buy up there. Nice views though.

Smartalex wrote:I left Ajijic in order to get away from the Village People. Now I live in Chapala. My Spanish has improved considerably and I feel about 20 years younger. Oh yeah, I'm an old gringo too...just don't need to be reminded of it all day long.

The Village People are cool,who doesn't like Y.M.C.A.?
It cracked me up the first time I heard Lakeside referred to as "Gods waiting room".

Smartalex wrote:I left Ajijic in order to get away from the Village People. Now I live in Chapala. My Spanish has improved considerably and I feel about 20 years younger. Oh yeah, I'm an old gringo too...just don't need to be reminded of it all day long.

Let's try that one again: WHO are "the village people"????

You gave me a good chuckle when you indicated that it was a downer to have to look at other old gringos.
De Nile is a river in Egypt, si?

Smartalex wrote:I left Ajijic in order to get away from the Village People. Now I live in Chapala. My Spanish has improved considerably and I feel about 20 years younger. Oh yeah, I'm an old gringo too...just don't need to be reminded of it all day long.

Lots of amenities in Ajijic but just doesn´t work for everyone. Funny story about Chapala is once I strolled into the American Legion soon after Osama Bin Laden was shot up. I visited with the bartender and saw a large group seated at a table outside yukking it up. I asked the bartender whatsup with that group. He laughed when he said Navy Seal Team 6 reunion. Everyone gets the "border promotion" around these parts.

kiko wrote:

Smartalex wrote:I left Ajijic in order to get away from the Village People. Now I live in Chapala. My Spanish has improved considerably and I feel about 20 years younger. Oh yeah, I'm an old gringo too...just don't need to be reminded of it all day long.

Lots of amenities in Ajijic but just doesn´t work for everyone.  Funny story about Chapala is once I strolled into the American Legion soon after Osama Bin Laden was shot up.  I visited with the bartender and saw a large group seated at a table outside yukking it up.  I asked the bartender whatsup with that group.  He laughed when he said Navy Seal Team 6 reunion.  Everyone gets the "border promotion" around these parts.  

Let's face it: No matter how humble your position in the world NOB, you can be whatever you say you were after you cross the southern border into the land of enchanters. However, it must be really embarrassing for the b.s. -er if he or she is "found out".

I learned Spanish and fluently in Ajijic so please give us a break about not speaking Spanish in Ajijic. It all depends on you not on the town where you live.
I know plenty of people from Chapala, Joco, San Juan and other places who do not speak Spansih or speak it very poorly , the towns have nothing to do with who you are, if you think they do you are just fooling yourself.
As far as feeling old or young is up to you as well.

brigitte wrote:I learned Spanish and fluently in Ajijic so please give us a break about not speaking Spanish in Ajijic. It all depends on you not on the town where you live.
I know plenty of people from Chapala, Joco, San Juan and other places who do not speak Spansih or speak it very poorly , the towns have nothing to do with who you are, if you think they do you are just fooling yourself.
As far as feeling old or young is up to you as well.

Well put.  One of the "youngest" people I know had her ninetieth birthday last winter. She's tiny, talented and all there.

and I bet she did not need to go out with a 20 year old stud to feel young.

brigitte wrote:and I bet she did not need to go out with a 20 year old stud to feel young.

Heck, no.
When something like that happens, it's "stupid, squared".

agreed.

A few thoughts from one who's spent 3+ years as a full-timer at Lakeside, is now N.O.B. (for just a year) with firm plans to snowbird and who's very open to eventually returning full-time.

It seems to me most expats at Lakeside neither stay or leave: they do both - and we call 'em snowbirds. One of the reasons this works so well is that the things that might wear one down about life at Lakeside specifically and Mexico generally as a steady diet don't matter nearly as much for shorter stays. Stay less than 6 months and you skip the whole visa nightmare. Get a seasonal rental in one of the villages and forego car ownership and you avoid enconters with corrupt transitos while enjoying the health benefits of life on foot (while returning home to your wheels just about the time that walking everywhere and taking crowded buses gets old). Enjoy the ~5 gringo-oriented restaurants worth eating at and gorge yourself on tacos and pozole, then return home about the time you're really missing real Asian, a Costco worth shopping at, and Amazon Prime.

For those without the means to snowbird it seems to me it's a different story, and of course it's all a matter of personal priorities and finances. The expat community at Lakeside is amazing, so full of talented, warm, altruistic people - and ditto the local Mexican community, which is among other things amazingly tolerant of gringo foibles. Medical care, once you learn the ropes, is excellent, though of course the need to go into Guadalajara for anything major is a concern that could easily become a life-threatening issue in an emergency. Year-round access to fresh fruits and veggies of a quality almost unknown N.O.B., the incredible climate and beauty of being near water and among growing things year-round is a huge boon to quality of life.

On the downside - for me at least, as a multi-decade resident of Colorado and California native - is no biking (too dangerous) and lousy hiking (trails are steep, covered in marble-sized gravel and still don't get you away from village noise), a poor choice of restaurants (both gringo and Mexican), no beer worth drinking (again compared to a zillion great microbrews N.O.B.) and - last not least - the simple reality that there is no rule of law, meaning, on a personal level, that if your stuff gets stolen or you're accosted you don't even bother reporting it, while on a national level you know (and learn more all the time as your Spanish improves) that your Mexican neighbors are dealing with far worse realities, including extortion and knowing just how intractable and hopeless the corruption actually is.

On the "other other hand," it's a heck of a lot easier to tune out U.S. news and consumer madness when living in México. I have a feeling many of you really don't miss hearing about the latest psycho to announce they're running for President, what Kim Kardashian and Caitlyn Jenner are up to and how we need to secure our borders from outsiders while arming churchgoers to stem gun violence in South Carolina.

At the end of the day it's a rare breed that can thrive as full-time expats, but this board specifically and Lakeside generally has many folks who set a great example of how to do so and the joy and vitality such an adventurous approach to retirement can provide.

A very thoughtful post.

As an eleven year resident: 3 years in San Miguel and 8 in Ajijic, I guess I'm one of what you call the "rare breed".  We have only taken one trip NOB for four days (funeral) during those years, and we couldn't wait to go back "home"...to Mexico.

As the spouse of a "corporate gypsy" for years who was used to being uprooted, my motto is:
"Bloom where you're planted."  

My immigrant ancestors did that, and became prosperous and contented U.S. citizens.  "Letting go" becomes easy after a while. Depends on what you focus on.  If it's the pathetically corrupt government in Mexico or the whitewashed corrupt government in the U.S.......It's not a good place to put your mind or your energy.  There are very few "white hats" out there, anywhere.
I like to focus on what good can be done with what I have to work with.

You are absolutely, positively correct about one thing:  Canadian beer is better.

And......life is too short to be taken very seriously.
Cheers!

I am getting to this topic late but thought I would share some stories I just ran into on a recent trip to Vancouver. I was talking with one taxi driver who said he and the missus had lived in Cuernavaca for three years but left due to the increasing violence there. He said he'd love to go back but only if Mexico cleaned up on the violence and on corruption. They got tired of always looking over their shoulder. There was more to the story where they got messed up with a shared home ownership deal that soured them on the legal system. That seems to have been their catalyst for leaving.
These are similar reasons I got from a capital market friend who is having a hard time selling Mexico projects to his clients. Said his investor clients are hesitating to invest in Mexican projects after Nieto lost some serious credibility on his govt's commitment to rule of law et al. They apparently want to "wait and see" if Mexico put its money where its mouth is to clean things up.
Attitude about Mexico in at least that part of the world seems really bad. I had quite a few people asking me if I was scared to live here, adding that they would "Never go to Mexico".

Clearly Mexico could use some better PR.

coffeeguy wrote:A few thoughts from one who's spent 3+ years as a full-timer at Lakeside, is now N.O.B. (for just a year) with firm plans to snowbird and who's very open to eventually returning full-time.

It seems to me most expats at Lakeside neither stay or leave: they do both - and we call 'em snowbirds. One of the reasons this works so well is that the things that might wear one down about life at Lakeside specifically and Mexico generally as a steady diet don't matter nearly as much for shorter stays. Stay less than 6 months and you skip the whole visa nightmare. Get a seasonal rental in one of the villages and forego car ownership and you avoid enconters with corrupt transitos while enjoying the health benefits of life on foot (while returning home to your wheels just about the time that walking everywhere and taking crowded buses gets old). Enjoy the ~5 gringo-oriented restaurants worth eating at and gorge yourself on tacos and pozole, then return home about the time you're really missing real Asian, a Costco worth shopping at, and Amazon Prime.

For those without the means to snowbird it seems to me it's a different story, and of course it's all a matter of personal priorities and finances. The expat community at Lakeside is amazing, so full of talented, warm, altruistic people - and ditto the local Mexican community, which is among other things amazingly tolerant of gringo foibles. Medical care, once you learn the ropes, is excellent, though of course the need to go into Guadalajara for anything major is a concern that could easily become a life-threatening issue in an emergency. Year-round access to fresh fruits and veggies of a quality almost unknown N.O.B., the incredible climate and beauty of being near water and among growing things year-round is a huge boon to quality of life.

On the downside - for me at least, as a multi-decade resident of Colorado and California native - is no biking (too dangerous) and lousy hiking (trails are steep, covered in marble-sized gravel and still don't get you away from village noise), a poor choice of restaurants (both gringo and Mexican), no beer worth drinking (again compared to a zillion great microbrews N.O.B.) and - last not least - the simple reality that there is no rule of law, meaning, on a personal level,  that if your stuff gets stolen or you're accosted you don't even bother reporting it, while on a national level you know (and learn more all the time as your Spanish improves) that your Mexican neighbors are dealing with far worse realities, including extortion and knowing just how intractable and hopeless the corruption actually is.

On the "other other hand," it's a heck of a lot easier to tune out U.S. news and consumer madness when living in México. I have a feeling many of you really don't miss hearing about the latest psycho to announce they're running for President, what Kim Kardashian and Caitlyn Jenner are up to and how we need to secure our borders from outsiders while arming churchgoers to stem gun violence in South Carolina.

At the end of the day it's a rare breed that can thrive as full-time expats, but this board specifically and Lakeside generally has many folks who set a great example of how to do so and the joy and vitality such an adventurous approach to retirement can provide.

Spot on! I couldn't have said it better..

gringal wrote:

Zedinmexico wrote:Actually many of us so called rich folks in Las Salvias are renters taking advantage of the bad real estate market in Ajijic. I don't see much difference in folks between where CB and Gringal live on the flats in Ajijic  and us folks way high on the hill. Some people have money some folks are waiting for Social Security check each month in both places.

Zed, renting is one thing, but just for the fun of it, check the real estate prices in your neighborhood, even in this depressed market.  Gotta have some serious bucks to buy up there.  Nice views though.

That's the point as long as we have large amounts of expensive real estate for sale with no buyers up here. I and others can rent a bargain and many of us do. Eventually folks will buy the houses and we renters will come back down to earth. But as long as I can rent for cheap why not live up here? I pay no more here for rent here than I did in the pink house east of you guys near the lake. Yes I miss the Mexicans and hate crossing the carraterra but I do love the lack of bugs compared to closer to the lake and as you say the views. I expect to be down in the village again.

OK, here are the cases that I can think of, that I personally know, of people who moved back NOB (or are wanting to) from Lakeside:
1) Older couple, very active and healthy, lived here for years, one of them took out Mexican citizenship and wrote (in Spanish) for a local newspaper.  One day the federales busted in thier neighbors' door while said neighbors were away, turned out to be a wrong address.  Couple immediately decided to leave, sold their home at a bargain price, severed all ties Lakeside, and moved NOB.
2) Met someone who moved her household and pets down here with her husband, who was descending into the mists of Alzheimer's.  After 3 weeks in Ajijic, she decided that the noise and the cobblestones were unbearable; and they are moving back NOB.  I don't know if she came for an exploratory visit, before making the move.
3) Talked with some friends yesterday who have lived here for years but plan to move NOB once their house sells.  A combination of being older now (70s) and worried about communicating in a Mexican hospital if necessary, since they don't speak Spanish PLUS wanting to move on to a new adventure.
4) Knew some folks who owned a charming home here, big on the cocktail circuit - they decided to move up to "little America" in Baja because of the close proximity to Veterans medical care in San Diego, coupled with "much better shopping".
5) Friends who own a home mountainside above Ajijic decided to rent a place in Texas for the winters to get away from the crowds and noise of high season.  They just finished a trip to look at possible rentals and have changed their minds - rentals are too costly in Texas.

My husband and I have lived here since we retired 5 years ago, after visiting Lakeside annually for a decade or so.  Our property manager asked us when we were moving back north, and the answer was:  "I am here until I am dead and they cremate me, and scatter my ashes on our horse pastures!" And in terms of medical care, we've turned down Medicare Part B, have taken out Mexican catastrophic health insurance policies, and plan to self-pay for the smaller items. In Mexico, of course.