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Deciding on moving to Lakeside

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Post by lunateak on Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:38 am

sambrit10 wrote:Aargh, the forum trolls! So sorry you have been exposed to them so quickly. Luckily they aren't typical of the vast majority of ex-pats we've met down here. There just seems to be a small subset of people who have too much time on their hands or think they're hilarious or that they have some special insights into people they've never even met, so they post some insanely annoying stuff.

Again, they are NOT typical. Some of them might even be pretty OK face to face. I don't know what it is about forums that leads to this kind of behavior, but there have been several times I've sworn not to post again. Then someone asks an interesting question or I have a question to ask and here I am again.

My best advice is, ignore them, and block the ones who are consistently irritating. (Which I think you are already doing!)

But I come back to my question in my previous post: are you sticking with the tourist visa or hoping to get temporary residency? Because that can affect the answers to some questions.

I believe she states her income will only allow for a tourist visa. She will have to leave every six months and will need to factor in those travel expenses.

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Post by Zedinmexico on Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:45 am

pamarie wrote:ZenW when you say you can't wait to come home where is home for you, I read that to mean the country you grew up in or do you mean lakeside?

Zen is out of Mexico and wants to come back.

Z

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Post by Luisa on Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:53 am

pamarie wrote:Luisa thank you for sharing all the new laws I actually already knew about them months ago now from a site I track; http://yucalandia.com/  And many others that I'm tracking as well, too many to list here, but I'm on it as much as I can possibly be outside of coming down there now which I cannot do, A-Makes no sense to since I'm planning on retiring in 1.5 years from now, it will only be a tease for me to come sooner than I'm ready to begin the actual process of transitioning there.  I plan to come down between January 2015 to Dec. 2015 to get a feel for the area and culture for myself and then go from there.  Once I'm there it will unfold for me better I'm sure.  I am aware it's different to bring things into a foreign country over moving things across the States this why I asked the question trying to get information from others that have experienced doing this and how it went for them.  

I will not qualify for permanent residency as I was aware of that before I even started this thread.  As far as living illegally anywhere I would never do such a thing, as I don't approve of illegal aliens in America so no way would I be such a hypocrit.  Perhaps you are just being cynical I don't know from some of the other comments you've made if you are serious or being funny.  Certainly surprising to me that anyone on here would even suggest such a thing but oh well....Not for me, I have morals and value honesty in all respects too much to even discuss such a thing as being an illegal! In truth it is living dishonestly it's a criminal act in all respects in my mind.  

Pam, I am very sorry that you found my explanation to be insulting. I meant to make it as simple and as non-specific as I possibly could. I talked about the difference between being a tourist and being a resident because it is an important distinction.

It does not appear that you have enough money to reside in Mexico legally. That is a very different question from whether you have enough money to live in Mexico comfortably. I am concerned by how many of my fellow Americans choose to live here illegally. I am very glad that you will not consider that route. Maybe the financial limits will change in the next year and a half. Today, however, you do not seem to have enough money to meet the Mexican government's requirement for residency. You could certainly be a tourist.

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Post by brigitte on Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:15 am

I paid no customs duties as I came on an FM3 .

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Post by Mainecoons on Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:29 am

Luisa makes a good point, though. You should probably determine if you can get a temporary resident visa at all based on income and savings. Before making any sort of decision to come here it might be a good idea to visit a nearby Mexican Consul and find out.

If not, you may want to consider other places like Panama which is much more expat friendly these days.

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Post by Luisa on Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:38 am

brigitte wrote:I paid no customs duties as I came on an FM3 .

I also paid no customs duty because my shipment was covered by my FM3.

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Post by CanuckBob on Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:38 am

There are lots of people here on tourist visa's. Taking a bus trip to the border every 6 months isn't that big of a deal. All in all it would probably cost less than $200 and be done in two days. Sometimes the airlines even have seat sales to LA or Phoenix for under $200 return. You could fly there in the AM and be back before dinner. I flew to Phoenix in January for $198 return via Volaris.
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Post by brigitte on Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:44 am

Goint to the border every 6 months is a pain and gets really old as you get older.It is also what can be done now we do not know what will be allowed later so counting on doing that for the rest of your life is pretty optimistic, but then you can always move back...
We had a neighbor in her late 90 who couldbarely make the trip to immigration once a year so forget about going back to the border in her case.

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Post by sambrit10 on Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:57 am

Pam, I agree with those who have suggested that you check with your Mexican consulate over what it would take to get a Temporary Resident designation (once
you're actually ready to make the move, of course).

You only have to qualify once ... if you have the cash assets to buy a house, even an inexpensive one, you might be able to get the Residency based on assets before you buy the house. I have also heard that some consulates will take a combination, eg, the monthly income and asset requirements are BOTH reduced based on a combination of the two.

Sounds like going to the border would be doable, but what's completely OK at age 60 might become a big difficulty in 10 or 20 years.

I should clarify, you only have to qualify once if you do your renewals on time and are willing to go to Permanent residency in four years. Otherwise I believe you have to completely re-apply for temporary residency after four years which includes financials all over again.

None of these residency visas obligate you to stay here, but they do make life a lot easier if you do decide to stay.

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Post by zenwoodle on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:14 am

pamarie wrote:ZenW when you say you can't wait to come home where is home for you, I read that to mean the country you grew up in or do you mean lakeside?

Lakeside is where I feel most at home. I was born in Ireland and lived in Canada most of my life.
I am currently back in Canada, but every day I think of Mexico and wish I was back there.
Hopefully soon.  Beer 
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Post by viajero on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:34 am

Mainecoons wrote:

If not, you may want to consider other places like Panama which is much more expat friendly these days.

The monthly income requirements for a resident visa in Panama are $1000 and even less if you own a home there,it's an option the OP might want to consider.

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Post by Luisa on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:42 am

viajero wrote:
Mainecoons wrote:

If not, you may want to consider other places like Panama which is much more expat friendly these days.

The monthly income requirements for a resident visa in Panama are $1000 and even less if you own a home there,it's an option the OP might want to consider.

That is a great idea.

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Post by viajero on Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:47 am

pamarie wrote:Not for me, I have morals and value honesty in all respects too much to even discuss such a thing as being an illegal!  
Do you think it's moral for a foreigner working the system and trying to live in Mexico on a permanent basis on tourist visas to try to take advantage of Seguro Popular,which is basically designed to be a medical safety net for Mexicans who aren't eligible for ISSTE or can't afford private medical treatment,as you stated you were contemplating doing?Personally,I don't think it is..

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Post by Lady Otter Latté on Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:53 am

If you google something like expat living in Panama, you get lots of interesting information. Here is just one.
http://thestayathomegringo.blogspot.mx/
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Post by pamarie on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:19 pm

I appreciate the suggestion of Panama, I did already investigate that and others as well but I'm very pulled by Lakeside, it's just the strangest thing for me, I was so excited and all set on it until the new rules and laws came into effect that it kind of burst my bubble a bit. But there have been some folks that I've gotten to know through Pat Walker that feel I can still make it work there. The overall opinion is it's definitely possible to relocate there, and just handle things as a tourist because who knows what is ahead, things could get better in terms of becoming a resident there easing up on financial income laws and as for getting on SP I feel that as long as it's legal to get SP in Mexico on a tourist visa I'm living within my own personal ethics. And that's all I have to say about that! Not going to further argue the point with anyone. I was thinking today as I drove into work that forums are interesting because it's like opening a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get till you try one out for size! Some of you on this forum have been very welcoming and have really given me some solid sound facts while others have shared their opinions yet some folks seem to be trying to talk me out of coming there which I suspect is just perhaps not wanting more Expats to come down there because things keep rising in costs based on supply and demand. I get it...but I just keep being pulled to that place and one thing I've come to understand in my life is that pull happens for a reason usually because it's God guiding me in the direction I'm supposed to go. Not to get all spiritual on anyone but I have incredible Faith so that is where I get the best directions, which is why I came on this forum, I was guided to get some stories and advice from a larger group of folks who live at Lakeside. Can't thank you all enough for taking your time to share things with me. I have done considerable research on many websites but I wanted to go into a forum to talk with the Expat community there to get a realistic "feel" of what it's like there, because the sites don't necessarily tell the big picture as they are just factual or advertising it as a paradise when it may very well not be. I would like very much to try for the temporal visa but given the laws I won't have 2100/month income guaranteed so I wouldn't qualify for it. I have to come across the border which I plan on doing regardless because I will be coming back to the US to spend time with my granddaughter. I have a small trust fund that I can use for traveling if all goes well. I do mean small 4k/yr is all it is. But it's very nice to have those small quarterly checks coming in! So I agree with CanuckBob, who has been most helpful and very positive throughout this thread! If folks are mostly like you than I can't wait to move there! You're a very nice person, like many on this thread and I thank everyone for taking time to share with me, specially those who sent PM's!

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Post by pamarie on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:43 pm

Sambrit10 yes I would very much like to try to get a temporary visa but with what I've read on Surviving Yucatan I don't think I will qualify. I will have approximately 70K in a retirement fund by early 2016 which I can liquidate or set it up for a monthly payout, then when I turn 65 I will get another smaller nest egg of about 40K which at that time I could perhaps qualify for the temporary visa and I would of course opt to do that over being there on a tourist visa. So I have to plan accordingly and pray that nothing healthwise messes up the plan if once there I know for sure I want to stay put. This is why I'm trying to research every aspect possible to make a sound decision as much as one can do in preparing for a major transition like retiring. I remember very well the year I lived in Puerto Rico as a child and imagine Lakeside to be very similar so that is another reason I'm drawn to it. I loved living in Puerto Rico, and I picked up Spanish very fast once we lived within the all Spanish speaking neighborhood.

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Post by pamarie on Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:02 pm

To Tony in Mexico do you live on a tourist visa or permanent residency?

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Post by lobita on Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:36 pm

Pamarie, if you are making $35k per year at your current job and can show a year's worth of bank statements with deposits to that effect, some consulates would approve you for Permanent Resident status based on that amount. I have a friend who applied in San Francisco and flatly pointed out to the consul that the income would not be continuing as he was retiring before he moved down ... and the consul said it didn't matter. Approved him based on income from a job he was about to quit.

But like others have said, each consulate is different. My spouse and I tried 4 different cities, on a total of 7 different occasions, before hitting the visa jackpot.
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Post by hockables on Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:00 pm

lobita wrote:Pamarie, if you are making $35k per year at your current job and can show a year's worth of bank statements with deposits to that effect, some consulates would approve you for Permanent Resident status based on that amount. I have a friend who applied in San Francisco and flatly pointed out to the consul that the income would not be continuing as he was retiring before he moved down ... and the consul said it didn't matter. Approved him based on income from a job he was about to quit.

But like others have said, each consulate is different. My spouse and I tried 4 different cities, on a total of 7 different occasions, before hitting the visa jackpot.

I would appear the Immigration requirements are subject to Interpretation....

When are you leaving for sunny Lake Chapala Pam?

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Post by pamarie on Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:14 pm

My current plan is to come to Lakeside for an initial visit/vacation for at least two weeks between January 2015 - December 2015, than sometime in early 2016 my hope is to move there for a 6 month trial and I will either buy a car there or bring one with. I will either firgure out storing my furniture in the states while deciding if Lakeside is for me or selling all my furniture and bringing down everything else and just buy furniture there at used shops or new from Costco or wherever is best for good deals. I don't have any desire to move my furniture no attachment to it, but other things for sure like my artwork or sentimental items.

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Post by pamarie on Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:29 pm

I think given all the feedback on here and what I've read online from other websites that I've been tracking I'll attempt to get a temporary residency visa and if it doesn't work out for me than a tourist one and wait until I have what I need to qualify for it if the laws don't make it harder that is. Since I live in Oregon I may be able to get this temporary residency visa according to what recently was posted on Surviving Yucatan at the bottom of my message here.

Here is what I got off Surviving Yucatan:

June 17, 2014 Update
For some adventurous folks, there may be a new way to get a new Residente Temporal permit (when yours expires after 4 years), all without going back home to a Mexican Consulate in your home country. (But don’t try this when you have a TIP car, and check with your local INM office first to get their approval before trying this approach…) ~ What do You do When You Have Completed 4 Years of Temporary Residency?
~

May 2014 Update: Monthly Pension Income requirements and savings requirements are changing at some Mexican Consulates and in some local INM offices (notably Chapala INM and San Antonio’s Mexican Consulate). See (click) this subsection for details: ~ Financial Independence (Savings or Income) Requirements for Temporary Residency / Residente Temporal Applicants

April 29, 2014 Updates
Lawyer Spencer McMullen, a talented attorney serving the Chapala expat community, has reported that the Chapala INM office (and Guadalajara INM office) have changed their requirements for applying for Residente Permanente when the applicant has NOT yet completed 4 continuous prior years of Temporary Residence (FM2, FM3, Residente Temporal combined): Permanent Residency applicants who want to qualify for RP status solely using $130,000 of retirement savings are now being told that they must have also at least some ($1) of monthly pension income to qualify. Mexican Consulates in Boston and San Francisco have also used this requirement in the past, because the INM Law & Lineamientos clearly describe the “personal fiscal solvency” Requisitos as being for “Jubilados” (retired people).

We suspect more INM offices will be adopting this new interpretation of INM law, so we ask readers to write in with information on how their local INM office and how their Consulates are qualifying Residente Permanentes, specifying whether the person be formally retired and receiving at least some pension income (or not). Thanks!

Proof of Fiscal Solvency for Residency Applicants

This section describes the monthly income $$ or savings $$ requirements to get Residente Temporal, followed by the monthly (retirement?) income $$ or savings $$ requirements to qualify for Residente Permanente. It is worth noting that a number of personal reports from SOME Mexican Consulates in the USA that they are accepting ONLY retirement income (like SSI or company pensions), while others are allowing people to qualify using an aggregate of partial qualifications – possibly including monthly income from working. Boston, Tucson, San Francisco, San Diego Consulates (and now San Antonio – May 2014) have been sticklers for ONLY retirement income or savings. Laredo, Chicago, Phoenix, Dallas, Portland OR, and Chicago have been more flexible in allowing just savings, and/or any monthly income. Similarly, for INM offices across Mexico, some individual regional offices are using a combination of financial deposits, small pension income, small SSI income, and property ownership (as in a “Points System”) to prove Personal Fiscal Solvency. May 2014: Chapala and Guadalajara offices just put in draconian local requirements that Permanent Resident applicants (who have less than 4 prior years of residency) must now prove at least some monthly PENSION income – as proof of retirement status(?) Each INM office has the discretion to use an aggregate of the applicant’s income and pensions and property assets, when no single value of these three meet the specific INM requirements, but some stick to the specific savings or income requirements per person.

Hopefully, the INM and Consulates will issue their specific rules for the new “Points System” in January or February, allowing expats to qualify for Residente Permanente or Temporal using an aggregate Points Score of meeting part of the income threshold, part of the savings account balance threshold, and part of the real estate ownership value threshold (even when they do not have enough of any single $$ amount to qualify, but a combination of lower amounts is enough).




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Post by pamarie on Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:43 pm

This is another reason I thought buying there would make sense, but now I'm not so sure given the feedback from members here. I'm the kind of person though who tends to stay put once I setup house because I feel moving around a lot is exhausting and will get more complicated and difficult as I age. I can't imagine moving around in my 80's if I live that long!

Using Method of Owning Real Estate Property in Mexico: (Residente Temporal)
~ Own/have real property trustee rights, with a value equivalent to forty thousand days of general minimum wage in the Federal District, with original and copy of written proof from a Notario. At the current $13:1 MXN:USD exchange rate, this translates to:
… About $207,050 USD (exactly $2,691,600 pesos) worth of property for one Residente Temporal.

Note that by our readings of the Lineamientos, this real estate ownership clause applies to applicants who are here on “humanitarian reasons” (refugees & asylum seekers) or for foreigners whose INM permit expired or who committed “activities not authorized” by their current INM permit.

***
Note 1: Some INM offices and some Consulates are reducing the monthly income or pension deposit requirements by 1/2 for applicants who own real estate property in Mexico, even if the property is worth less than the stated minimum.

Using Method of Monthly Deposits of Income or Pension Receipts: (Resident Temporal)
~ Have minimum pension or salary deposits/income that is the equivalent of four hundred days worth of the current minimum wage in the Federal District, for each of the previous six months – with original and copies of original bank statement for one Residente Temporal.

Current 2014 DF general minimum wages of $67.29 MXN pesos per day, converted at the current exchange rate of 13.00 pesos to US dollars, for 400 days of wages:
~ About $2,070 USD (exactly $26,916 pesos) per month of regular Deposits ~ to qualify for Residente Temporal


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Post by pamarie on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:27 pm

I found the person that posted about moving his stuff to Mexico but it is outdated. I just realized that on a tourist visa you can't move your furniture there, sorry it's all so confusing at times for me in trying to figure all the logisticals involved in transitioning there. I'll definitely try to get on a temporary resident visa for so many reasons I think it would be crazy not to.

http://www.maztravel.com/maz/retire.html

You can ask 5 different people and get 6 different stories on this one, but since our furniture arrived here on June 14, 1995, listen to what I have to say instead. First of all, when you come to Mexico you will probably be arriving as a tourist. A tourist cannot have his furniture imported to Mexico, so don't even try. However, it is very easy to get what is called an FM-3 status. For us, it took less than a week, and cost about $200 in fees. We got our FM-3 documents here in Mazatlán, but I believe you can do it through a Mexican consulate in the United States as well. Once you have an FM-3, you need to arrange with a shipping company to have your furniture shipped to your home in Mexico. Part of the process is providing a list of items that are to be brought down. Also, it is important that none of the items be new. Don't try to fudge on this, it isn't worth it. The customs agents will check the date of manufacture on your washers, dryers, refrigerators, TVs etc. and will give you a hard time if they find something less than a year old. Your inventory needs to include the make, model number, and serial number of anything electric, even the portable tape recorders and clock radios. For the rest of the items, descriptions such as 5 boxes of clothes and 3 boxes of kitchen articles is sufficient. You must take your inventory, with 4 copies, and your FM-3 to the nearest consulate, where they must stamp it and write in your FM-3 document that you are bringing down your furniture. You give these stamped inventories along with a notarized copy (by the consulate) of your FM-3 to your shipper, and then settle back and wait for your furniture to show up. Very likely, the guys at customs will find something amiss, even if it is not. In our case, they said that one of the portable boom boxes that we were bringing down was new, when in fact it wasn't. They will demand payment of a duty. It is a small amount, and it is far easier to pay it than to try to fight it. Once the furniture clears customs, you should have it in a few days. Everything I have said above is from personal experience, so don't believe anyone who tells you it can't be done. We heard that here for years, and believed it until we finally decided to try anyway, and we were surprised by how basically simple the whole thing was provided that you followed the procedures.

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Post by Pedro on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:41 pm

this is 2014 not 1995 and there is no fm3,in any event. seems that you are overloading yourself with useless outdated info. might i suggest that you try to deal with the here and now.
in that respect ask the mexican consulate nearest you about these important details because that is who you are going to have to deal with if you attempt other than a 180 day tourist visa.
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Post by pamarie on Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:20 pm

Pedro it might help if you read my message more carefully as I stated it was outdated.... I just thought it would be good to post what this person experienced in case anyone else looking into moving there would like to hear about someone that did move stuff to Mexico outdated or not, different location in MX or the same no matter..... It wasn't so much about whether or not I would quilify or on how to get a tourist or temporary residency visa. Its obvious that I have enough information between the nice folks on this forum that have taken time to share facts with me as well as their experiences. Between your PM and most of your posts in response to my original one I'm no longer interested in what you have to say. Sorry just being honest, but I'm not into badmouthing or arguing about things. Better ways to use my time, and I should think for you too since you live in paradise! LOL!

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Post by Pedro on Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:49 pm

anyone that calls any place a paradise is self delusional but i really like this place and a lot of the interesting people i have met, so that i will croak here with my boots on. has anyone else posted outdated info in an effort to help you? you do no one a service by doing so. have you posed any questions to the consulate. if so, please post what you have learned to be helpful to others since a lot of members on this board have been trying to be helpful to you-gracias. laughing out loud! by the way,i have helped many people who were interested in moving here and even had the strangers in my home just as others have done for us before and after we moved here.
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