Children and behavior issues.

Since it was my open ended statement on another topic that appears to have been the trigger for this, maybe it is time for me to chime in. From the various comments, it appears that restaurants and airplanes are two critical points. For those of us born in say the late 30's to early 50's, airplane travel, steamship travel, hotels and restaurants were a far different picture! Airplane travel was somewhat of a privilege and wasn't something that people took for granted. I don't think I ever boarded a plane with my parents when I wasn't wearing a tie and sportcoat. I include domestic flights on DC3's in various countries and longer international flights on various flavors of prop planes. When we traveled on ocean liners, one always dressed for dinner but looking like a slob the rest of the day wasn't tolerated. With the exception of the US, it was always hotels since the motel concept was fairly limited back in those days. Again with the exception of the US where drive in restaurants had their place, eating a meal was in a restaurant and considered a necessity when traveling but a special occasion when at home.

I would guess that many of our parents were quite similar in that they did not tolerate acting up in public and were absolutely adamant about respecting others, especially our elders. Obviously, times have changed and parenting patterns have certainly changed! Many of the things I mentioned above as being a privilege are simply taken for granted and there seems to be a lack of any type of consequence for those children who act up or misbehave. For kids today, there is no difference in their behavior when riding in a car versus taking a plane. There is no behavior difference when eating in a nice restaurant versus Burger King. There is no behavior difference at a nice resort hotel versus staying at a Motel 6. And there certainly is a lack of respect for anyone around them when out in public.

The net result of all of this negative behavior is that we are blown away when we observe children who have been raised in a positive manner and conduct themselves with proper deportment in public. While neither of us chose to have children, we have absolutely zero problem interacting with children who were raised properly!

Hensley[quote=" children should be seen and not heard /quote]
What a ridiculous thing to say,how sad it must be to have that sort of attitude towards children.Parker does'nt mind well behaved children,well that's a relief,question is do they mind him?Anybody seen any ice floes on Lake Chapala I think we have some customers.

Kids, dogs, smokers, loud adults, flies, inefficiencies, surly wait staff, pollution, lousy food, dirty bathrooms, cheap napkins, loud music, crummy lighting, handicapped access, roving vendors, short change, inclement weather, sticky table, kitchen racket, disease, the TSA and so much more. It's enough to make one suicidal!

So, if I get this right. Parker.........You think children should not be on planes or in good restaurants, and following this logically.........how should their parents travel from point A to point B? Greyhound buses across country? And, further, should their parents eat only at fast food places where the offerings are unhealthy for both children and adults?

And all this, because you can't tolerate the possibility that some might misbehave? Have you considered adapting, as in wearing earplugs and finding an absorbing book to read? Don't you know how to control your inner responses to outside stimuli and maintain "inner peace"? There are groups who are eager to help people with a low tolerance level for the normal noisy, chaotic, world.

Behaving in public places is something the French, among others, have down cold. They don't act like adults. They act like children with manners.

oncesubtle wrote:Kids, dogs, smokers, loud adults, flies, inefficiencies, surly wait staff, pollution, lousy food, dirty bathrooms, cheap napkins, loud music, crummy lighting, handicapped access, roving vendors, short change, inclement weather, sticky table, kitchen racket, disease, the TSA and so much more. It's enough to make one suicidal!

\

Yes, it's just all TOO MUCH. BTW, I did go to Robertos for brunch and sat next to a table of six happy, noisy old farts who were laughing and having a good time.
It was rather festive. As soon as the staff threw them food, it was a little more sedate. LOL. BTW, the new brunch is outstanding. Had to take some home for later.

viajero wrote:Hensley[quote=" children should be seen and not heard /quote]
What a ridiculous thing to say,how sad it must be to have that sort of attitude towards children.Parker does'nt mind well behaved children,well that's a relief,question is do they mind him?Anybody seen any ice floes on Lake Chapala I think we have some customers.

Couldn't agree more. Children are very entertaining. Our grandchildren have been going to nice restaurants since they were quite young. If the adults are talking about something which the kids aren't interested in they have drawing competitions amongst themselves or do puzzles. They dress up, so it's an occasion for them, and are thrilled to be going out with the family. We tell stories, which they love, and eat all kinds of unusual foods. Noisy games and running around are done at home. They also love to help in the kitchen and show off their own little recipes, especially for cookies.

How are children supposed to learn anything if they aren't included loved and respected.

Back in the olden days......children were more or less an unavoidable consequence of sex. Their parents accepted them, trained them to have good manners so they could stand having the brood around, and they put them to work: Chores were an expected part of family life.

Fast forward to the era where children were a choice and became a fashion accessory, more or less. Mom and Dad both worked. Nobody had the time or energy to do the parenting job right......so they gave them "things" instead of attention and discipline.

Why should anyone be surprised that present society turned out the way it did? Industry is tickled to see more kids born. They are tomorrow's "consumers".

Basically, the world has gone bananas.

Those damned kids... why did anybody ever even bother with them?

I guess you and I are happy our parents did, where we're personally concerned.

gringal wrote:So, if I get this right. Parker.........You think children should not be on planes or in good restaurants, and following this logically.........how should their parents travel from point A to point B?

They have two choices one is to stay close to home and take care of their own without intruding on others comfort or hire a sitter for short periods of time; it’s not like an eternity until the kids reach an emotional maturity for more adult adventures. The only possible excuse it to move for a job opportunity and this should be given great consideration, new babies, new area, new environment and new employment is a disaster waiting to happen.

Greyhound buses across country?

They’ll still be in another’s space.

And, further, should their parents eat only at fast food places where the offerings are unhealthy for both children and adults?

Parents should be cooking at home, going too fast food places should be considered a luxury. Not only that there are probably more kid friendly places than middle to upper class. Certainly is here by the Lakeside.

And all this, because you can't tolerate the possibility that some might misbehave? Have you considered adapting, as in wearing earplugs and finding an absorbing book to read? Don't you know how to control your inner responses to outside stimuli and maintain "inner peace"? There are groups who are eager to help people with a low tolerance level for the normal noisy, chaotic, world.

My tolerance level is just fine and I find your comments rather silly, but that doesn’t mean we should allow others, by our silence, to think we approve of a child’s unruly behavior. It’s no wonder that society is becoming more and more uncivil and we wonder why.

Behaving in public places is something the French, among others, have down cold. They don't act like adults. They act like children with manners.

Your opinion.

Oh yes the job thing is important for everyone, even pets. Our dog, has a job title. Vice President in charge of chasing off birds. Great fun, and even better with a toy in her mouth, she sounds much more ferocious that way.

All of the grandchildren have or did have jobs both out of the house and in it, paper routes and dog walking. The oldest ones will be working during summer holidays from university. College pro painting just like their Dad.

The worst thing my son ever did in a restaurant was burp rather loudly after a fine meal in a semi fancy restaurant in Zacatecas when he was 3 years old,my wife was'nt amused,I just laughed and nobody seemed to be offended. Anybody who has a problem with kids has a problem with life IMO.

viajero wrote: Anybody who has a problem with kids has a problem with life IMO.

Agreed.

viajero wrote:The worst thing my son ever did in a restaurant was burp rather loudly after a fine meal in a semi fancy restaurant in Zacatecas when he was 3 years old,my wife was'nt amused,I just laughed and nobody seemed to be offended. Anybody who has a problem with kids has a problem with life IMO.

That wouldn’t bother me either and you wife was right to not be amused, they need to learn that in some places this is considered lower class. Better to just not do it at all.

Parker"Parents should be cooking at home, going too fast food places should be considered a luxury".WTF



"My tolerance level is just fine"you think so?
[/quote]
I think your tolerance level could use some adjusting.

Parker's former posts about kindness and love and being "nice" used to annoy me, but this thread is another matter entirely.

The more I hear, the more I hear echoes a maiden aunt whose pronouncements could etch glass.......especially where children were concerned. I was wisely terrified of Aunt Mildred. She had a look that could turn a child to stone. Brrrrr!

I agree with Solo and Viajero about dealing with kids in general. Adults are more of a problem in life.

Besides, an appreciative belch is considered quite all right by the Chinese and is expected. Just a cultural difference. After all, what is a kid supposed to do when the burp comes on?

Bitter old fart and a despicable excuse for a human being. Her arrogance and sense of entitlement are disgusting.

gringal wrote:Parker's former posts about kindness and love and being "nice" used to annoy me, but this thread is another matter entirely.

The more I hear, the more I hear echoes a maiden aunt whose pronouncements could etch glass.......especially where children were concerned. I was wisely terrified of Aunt Mildred. She had a look that could turn a child to stone. Brrrrr!

I agree with Solo and Viajero about dealing with kids in general. Adults are more of a problem in life.

Besides, an appreciative belch is considered quite all right by the Chinese and is expected. Just a cultural difference. [b]After all, what is a kid supposed to do when the burp comes on?[b]

Cover his mouth and mute the noisy a bit. Show that he has learned some manners.

Between posts I've been playing dominoes with my son,He's kicking my ass,life is good!
Chris

It's a little off subject but the restaurant my son burped in was called "Los Dorados de Villa"named after Francisco Villa,say what you want about Pancho,one thing is for sure, he loved kids, after the revolution he brought thousands of war orphans by train to his hacienda from Mexico City,where he built schools and hired teachers and took care of them with his own money.
Viva Villa.

So bless Pancho. We saw his home and bullet ridden car, but they never mentioned what he did for the kids on that tour.

gringal wrote:So bless Pancho. We saw his home and bullet ridden car, but they never mentioned what he did for the kids on that tour.

He was also a teetotaller,but he loved his ice cream and women,something like 13 wives and no divorces,que chingon.

WestJet, a popular Canadian Air Line has finally solved the problem of kids on a flight. Check out this announcement:

WestJet introduces child-free cabins

Parker wrote:

gringal wrote:So, if I get this right. Parker.........You think children should not be on planes or in good restaurants, and following this logically.........how should their parents travel from point A to point B?

They have two choices one is to stay close to home and take care of their own without intruding on others comfort or hire a sitter for short periods of time; it’s not like an eternity until the kids reach an emotional maturity for more adult adventures. The only possible excuse it to move for a job opportunity and this should be given great consideration, new babies, new area, new environment and new employment is a disaster waiting to happen.

Not to split hairs Parker but parents have three choices, the third is: They can take their kids anywhere they want, whenever they want. It's you who have a problem and it's yours to deal with.

oncesubtle wrote:

Parker wrote:

gringal wrote:So, if I get this right. Parker.........You think children should not be on planes or in good restaurants, and following this logically.........how should their parents travel from point A to point B?

They have two choices one is to stay close to home and take care of their own without intruding on others comfort or hire a sitter for short periods of time; it’s not like an eternity until the kids reach an emotional maturity for more adult adventures. The only possible excuse it to move for a job opportunity and this should be given great consideration, new babies, new area, new environment and new employment is a disaster waiting to happen.

Not to split hairs Parker but parents have three choices, the third is: They can take their kids anywhere they want, whenever they want. It's you who have a problem and it's yours to deal with.

Your above statement is just stating the obvious, IMO.

I am dealing with it by letting others know to be considerate. Screaming babies on planes is not a joy for anyone and something should be done. Things will never change if someone doesn’t speak up. I pay just as much for my transportation as they and deserve common curtsies.

I’ve spent considerable time flying through Asian countries and they just don’t have the same problems, IMHO. What are they doing right that we can’t seem to learn? One thing, IMO, is they don’t make excuses plus they are never loud and boisterous in public areas (the exception would be bars, gaming events and private parties) setting a very good example for their young. And in their daily life I really doubt they would ever yell at their children, discipline yes, yelling no.

Even on these forums people are always calling others inappropriate names, how they don’t personally like an individual setting the example that to be disrespectful is just fine.

We all have choices and some of us choose not to like kids, some of us have our personal reasons. We still have very good lives.
I have said in the past I was going to adopt a teenager, send them to college and there is my kid, never happened too busy with my career. Wouldn't of been fair to a child anyway, my lifestyle.

I don't know how many parents I have come in contact with here that their kids have disowned them, it is really a shame, so why bother.