Lakeside crime.com

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:

brigitte wrote:People who are victims may not want to talk about it and move on. They may be scared, wanting to forget it, not wanting to hurt real estate and so on..
Meanwhile the frutrating and scary thing about crime is that there is no follow up by the authorities officially at least so people get bored with the whole thing and want to distance themselves from it..

I think reporting crime is a good thing so people can protect themselves or organize their neighborhood but unfortunately since there is no follow up people lose interest.

It is a shame the site is closing , it could be a great tool but at he same time if no one is volunteering to help, if you cannot follow up (you cannot get information even from the MP on any crime) it becomes close to useless.
I think the site is a great beginnning but I do not see anyone stepping up to the plate to get involved with it it cannot survive.

The second part depends. I deal with the MP often, and will just say that I know enough to say they take their job very seriously, and will do what they can, but need people talk with them. In fact, they are trying to figure out how they can better communicate with the English-speaking residents here so they can work cases better.

Nice words about the ministerio - and I am just sitting here shaking my head. I asked Capt Contreras to have the MP meet with the community - nothing happened - and then another person that was closely working with the MP said that he could get them to meet........ nothing happened. From my perspective, this really needed to/needs to happen - but hey - I feel they may talk a good talk, but when push comes to shove they are really NOT interested in communicating with the community - is my two cents. Is that a problem? Sure - most people here do not understand the judicial system - have unrealistic expectations - and the MP really doesn't do anything to fix the problem - as - the opinion I hear is that it is not their problem.

And lets take a look at another failure to work with the Ministerio. When they first published CSI's mission statement, it said (at a meeting dated 12.9) Our sole purpose is to serve only as a consultant group and to support the enhancement of the Ministerio Publico, as well as the public security of our Municipality.

I agree that it is a pretty ridiculous mission statement - and who knows what it means. But I thought, hey, at least they are talking to the ministerio.

But - that mission statement faded into the sunset.......... and they ended up just working with Contreras before they too faded into the sunset. But I also assume that the Ministerio really didn't want to talk to them. And they surely didn't want an expat group to enhance them (what was someone thinking?)

I just mention the three occasions because they are all attempts to improve communication between the ministerio and the expats. So from my perspective, it is really not something they really want to improve( communication) but - they like to present the image that it is something they would like to improve.

My two cents or maybe four.

Mad_Max wrote:

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:

brigitte wrote:People who are victims may not want to talk about it and move on. They may be scared, wanting to forget it, not wanting to hurt real estate and so on..
Meanwhile the frutrating and scary thing about crime is that there is no follow up by the authorities officially at least so people get bored with the whole thing and want to distance themselves from it..

I think reporting crime is a good thing so people can protect themselves or organize their neighborhood but unfortunately since there is no follow up people lose interest.

It is a shame the site is closing , it could be a great tool but at he same time if no one is volunteering to help, if you cannot follow up (you cannot get information even from the MP on any crime) it becomes close to useless.
I think the site is a great beginnning but I do not see anyone stepping up to the plate to get involved with it it cannot survive.

The second part depends. I deal with the MP often, and will just say that I know enough to say they take their job very seriously, and will do what they can, but need people talk with them. In fact, they are trying to figure out how they can better communicate with the English-speaking residents here so they can work cases better.

Nice words about the ministerio - and I am just sitting here shaking my head. I asked Capt Contreras to have the MP meet with the community - nothing happened - and then another person that was closely working with the MP said that he could get them to meet........ nothing happened. From my perspective, this really needed to/needs to happen - but hey - I feel they may talk a good talk, but when push comes to shove they are really NOT interested in communicating with the community - is my two cents. Is that a problem? Sure - most people here do not understand the judicial system - have unrealistic expectations - and the MP really doesn't do anything to fix the problem - as - the opinion I hear is that it is not their problem.

And lets take a look at another failure to work with the Ministerio. When they first published CSI's mission statement, it said (at a meeting dated 12.9) Our sole purpose is to serve only as a consultant group and to support the enhancement of the Ministerio Publico, as well as the public security of our Municipality.

I agree that it is a pretty ridiculous mission statement - and who knows what it means. But I thought, hey, at least they are talking to the ministerio.

But - that mission statement faded into the sunset.......... and they ended up just working with Contreras before they too faded into the sunset. But I also assume that the Ministerio really didn't want to talk to them. And they surely didn't want an expat group to enhance them (what was someone thinking?)

I just mention the three occasions because they are all attempts to improve communication between the ministerio and the expats. So from my perspective, it is really not something they really want to improve( communication) but - they like to present the image that it is something they would like to improve.

My two cents or maybe four.

There are changes as we speak. The whole Mexican system is in the works to be more like the U.S. system with more integration of the M.P. into the police system, and less seperate. Also, the court system is to be more open (from what I understand a jury system is the goal). The bilingual MP staff is not just from the MP office, but from higher up. At this time, I do have someone from the office interested in answering questions if enough people would attend.

If the Ministerio wants to hear about crime from people maybe they should be a little more welcoming to them: my neighbor went there 4 times to report a crime that and was told to come back every time. I know they are very busy but they lost the oportunity to hear from him.

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:

There are changes as we speak. The whole Mexican system is in the works to be more like the U.S. system with more integration of the M.P. into the police system, and less seperate. Also, the court system is to be more open (from what I understand a jury system is the goal). The bilingual MP staff is not just from the MP office, but from higher up. At this time, I do have someone from the office interested in answering questions if enough people would attend.

Those "changes" were legislated some years ago. Tell us exactly what real change has occurred. I mean, you being well connected and in the know.

HECHOS NO PALABRAS.....por favor

By the way a good start to communicate with the English speaking community is to ask people to come in with their interpreters if they do not have any bilingual speaker.
Another way would have been to ask the groups that approach them to come up with a list of bilingual Mexicans or other nationalities citizens ,not an extremely difficult step.
I can see the need within the English speaking community to have translaters but the community itself can provide them .
A more urgent matter would be to direct their"PR campaign" towards the Mexican community . Unfortunately they are a little tougher , their past experience taught them not to be so gullible and eager to believe than changes are the answer.
Please do not give us the grand plans give us some concrete ideas and plans that can improve the current situation.

Every other person I know here is either trying to sell their home, or contemplating a sale in the near future. Most are leaving because of the crime issues here and several have been burglarized. It is not in their interest to report crimes or support a website that does that.

You must travel in a completely different circle than me because I know "a few" people around here and only 2 that I know of are selling their homes and it has nothing to do with crime. One is looking to relocate locally and the other is leaving for medical reasons.

I have met about 7 younger Canadian couples in the past 3 months that are all planning on moving here within the next few years.

So let's have a poll with the members here. Who is currently trying to sell their home or planning on listing within the next few months due to the crime around here?

Since I rent, I can only speak of the people I know and none are leaving, or planning on selling their homes.

Only one couple because of medical insurance coverage.

what crime, other than what ya gets anywhere ya are?
we ain't moving nowhere,nohow.

CBob people reporting or not reporting crimes, live here, people wanting to move here are not aware or what is really going on or they would think twice about it.
It will take a couple of kidnappings targeted towards foreigners for the town to have a lot less foreigners. Everyone is justifying all the murders by thinking it only happens to Mexicans, only happen to gays or people who do this or that. If the time comes that foreigners are also a target, people will clear out.

Everyone has their own level of tolerance but I know quite a few people who have been here for a long while and want out.

The level of crime is bad ,killings and kidnappings, extortion are whole lot more common than we know from the papers. We never find out how things end unless a body is found. Never find out if the criminals have been caught or not and if they are in jail.
Drugs dealers work in the open no one tries to do anything to them and people who live around them have to put up with it or move.
The new government is on their PR campaign so less and less wil be known.

We are staying because we have commited to this country, going back to the States is not an option for me and going back to France after 40 years with a husband who does not speak the language is not either but I know many people who were totally commited who are starting to ask themselves questions.

If w had know 12 years ago what we know now we would not have moved to Mexico.

Good post, brigitte.

Yes it is.

I own a house, that I don't live in. I come down very rarely. I am in wait and see mode as to what I will do. Maybe one day I will feel comfortable living in Mexico again. But... Not at present.

Given the reactions seen on various forums when people admit concern over the crime issue - who in their right mind would admit to wanting to bail out because of it? The ridicule might be unbearable. A great deal easier to come up with a medical excuse, an issue with the kids or grandkids or simply that was the plan all along!

Well I moved here right smack in the middle of some of the worst crap to happen around here, this time last year. We came knowing full well what was happening. I can tell you that, while maybe not on the exact same scale, there is a lot of crime happening NOB. I think many people have lived here too long and may not have a total grasp on the increase in crime and violence up north. While it may not be kidnappings and extortion, there is much gang related murder and mayhem happening. In Vancouver there were gang shoot-outs on a very regular basis and a few innocents were taken out in the crossfire or by mistaken identity.

I still haven't heard much about people moving so far on this thread as was implied in an earlier post.

We have our house for sale but aren't moving norte. If we get our price we'll reinvest in other lakeside properties as there are some really good deals nowadays.

The people I know are moving are not reading this board so what does that prove? I can tell you that the business people I know who have been here for a long time are telling me business is off. The reasons there are deals is that houses are not selling, rentals are not tough to find . There are other way sto judge if people are coming or leaving than a "survey" on a silly forum.

I've been here 8 years and know many people here. One of our friends sold their home to move north due to medical issues. That's the only one I know of. We know only 2 couples who rent, all others own their home.

Just the opposite for me....
Most of my friends and relations are mexicanos from Guadalajara and would like to move out here.
Too far from work and they just can't seem to find all those "low priced, market depressed homes" for sale by the great exodous of all these norteamericanos.
Not many/any home owning mexicanos that I know that live full time at the lake are planning to move...anywhere.
...Tis the land of greatly different perceptions.

slainte39 wrote:Just the opposite for me....
Most of my friends and relations are mexicanos from Guadalajara and would like to move out here.
Too far from work and they just can't seem to find all those "low priced, market depressed homes" for sale by the great exodous of all these norteamericanos.
Not many/any home owning mexicanos that I know that live full time at the lake are planning to move...anywhere.
...Tis the land of greatly different perceptions.

Yes - truly different perceptions....... but I think the Mexican's perceptions are based more on reality - and the expats based on not very much information. And if I was Mexican I doubt that I would want to move to another state - Jalisco is one of the calmer states when it comes to Narco Violence - so they still have a family culture - and not a lot of choices that would be an improvement.

So here is an example of "not much information" - I asked my maid who lives in Ajijic the name of the doctor whose wife was just kidnapped from Walmart. She gave me the name. Later in the day i asked 2 expats if they heard about the kidnapping - and the answer was no. They also haven't heard about the murder of another doctors father and brother. And I really don't care if they are mexicans. This is one community - writing things off and ignoring what it happening to the mexican community, when this community is our home, is a mindset that I totally disagree with.

If you are Mexican your life is here so where are they going to move? Their family and jobs are here, there are plenty of problems in other areas as well so life goes on.
Foreigners have a choice. It is a cash market so I would not expect the same drastic price reductions as we see up north but there are plenty of deals in the market now if you look around.

There are people I know who would like to move here, but can't because they haven't been able to sell their NOB property. Now, with the new financial requirements, they can't come here for those reasons, even if they do sell their NOB homes.
Just to make the picture darker, they can't afford to live decently on their retirement income NOB.

The people who have put down new roots in Mexico and have been here over five years seem to be content to stay put. Like David, I only know one family that moved back NOB for medical reasons.
The community where I lived nine years ago before moving here is now filled with gangs, crime and financial troubles, like most of the USA. Why move back? We aren't.

We are also conducting our lives in the way we were living back in greater Los Angeles: cautiously.
Lakeside isn't a place where you should leave the keys in your car's ignition and leave your doors unlocked. That's just the way it is and probably won't change.

Mad_Max wrote:

slainte39 wrote:Just the opposite for me....
Most of my friends and relations are mexicanos from Guadalajara and would like to move out here.
Too far from work and they just can't seem to find all those "low priced, market depressed homes" for sale by the great exodous of all these norteamericanos.
Not many/any home owning mexicanos that I know that live full time at the lake are planning to move...anywhere.
...Tis the land of greatly different perceptions.

Yes - truly different perceptions....... but I think the Mexican's perceptions are based more on reality - and the expats based on not very much information. And if I was Mexican I doubt that I would want to move to another state - Jalisco is one of the calmer states when it comes to Narco Violence - so they still have a family culture - and not a lot of choices that would be an improvement.

So here is an example of "not much information" - I asked my maid who lives in Ajijic the name of the doctor whose wife was just kidnapped from Walmart. She gave me the name. Later in the day i asked 2 expats if they heard about the kidnapping - and the answer was no. They also haven't heard about the murder of another doctors father and brother. And I really don't care if they are mexicans. This is one community - writing things off and ignoring what it happening to the mexican community, when this community is our home, is a mindset that I totally disagree with.

So are you moving? Do you know anyone moving due to the crime?

brigitte wrote:The people I know are moving are not reading this board so what does that prove? I can tell you that the business people I know who have been here for a long time are telling me business is off. The reasons there are deals is that houses are not selling, rentals are not tough to find . There are other way sto judge if people are coming or leaving than a "survey" on a silly forum.

So of all the people you know how many are bugging out due to the crime?