Super Bugs

Each of these bacteria can cause a number of infectious diseases, including pneumonia, septicemia and urinary tract infections. In the case of Klebsiella, Spellberg noted, there's just one highly toxic drug left, and it's effective only about half the time it's used.
It's equally alarming that antibiotic drug development is at a virtual standstill, he said. "The pipeline is barren," partly because pharmaceutical companies have few incentives for developing antibiotics that people take for just a few days or weeks, Spellberg said.

"With one five minute cycle, you can achieve anywhere from 95 to 99 percent disinfection, as compared to human clean, which is about 60 to 70 percent, in spite our best efforts," said Dr. Chetan Jinadatha, Chief of Infectious Diseases for the Temple VA Hospital.New UV Disinfection Technology aims to eliminate cross-contamination in hospitals.

The Temple VA Hospital purchased two of the more than 70-thousand dollar machines recently, making it one of the first VA hospitals in the country to do so. Although the machine may seem pricey, doctors say the cost to own the machines pales in comparison to the cost of un-doing cross-contamination.

Doctors say every three cross contamination cases equals the cost of one machine. So, in six months, the device generally pays for itself. In the future, the VA hospital hopes to adapt more of the machines.

Xenex systems are currently in use by hospitals throughout the U.S. and have proven to be effective against a variety of the most dangerous superbugs, including Clostridium difficile endospores (C. diff), MRSA, VRE and Acinetobacter. Studies show the Xenex room disinfection system is consistently 20 times more effective than standard chemical cleaning practices.

The portable room disinfection device pulses blue ultraviolet light throughout hospital isolation rooms, Intensive Care Units (ICUs), and Emergency Departments (ED's) to quickly destroy viruses, bacteria and bacterial spores – typically in about 5-10 minutes per room.

espíritu del lago wrote:

Unfortunately there's the whole issue of antibiotics in our food. Many farm animals are pumped up on antibiotics to avoid mass spread among the (often) tightly crammed herd or flock.

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:Gloom, doom, and BS...

UV as a sterilizing agent is not new. It was offered in kitchens in the 50s, and used in hospitals before that. In fact, Niels Ryberg Finsen invented a special UV lamp over 110 years ago that was used up into the 50s, and was awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 1903 for its application in killing bacteria.

Yes, you can use UV to treat your swimming pool, just put your pool outside in the sun.

As for the superbug terror, it sells news. I have yet to see any bacteria that will permanently have resistance. This is the part that is never mentioned in the gloom and doom news. The misuse of antibiotics is a problem, and it does kill people. However, what all this misinformation fails to mention is that bacterial resistance is a metabolic load on the organism. What that means is that a bacteria will only have resistance as long as it is exposed to the specific antibiotic. Remove the antibiotic, and the resistance goes away. Isolated, the bacteria will continue to divide until some progeny of of it does not have the resistance plasmid. The lack of the plasmid means lower metabolic load (it would also mean death if the antibiotic was still present). However, without the need for resistance, it lives and divides... and will divide faster than the bacteria with the metabolic load of having the resistance plasmid. Thus, in X number of generations, the non-resistant form will completely replace the resistant version.

The problem is when the resistance is produced in person "A", and person "A" passes the infection to person "B". The person inherits the resistant bacteria. This is a major problem for the patient, and more work for the doctor. Cultures and antibiograms need to be done, and guessing which antibiotic to use in the meantime can mean life and death until the results come back in a few days. However, “Superbug” is not anything super. It is just a bacteria that is resistant because it is continually encouraged to be by being given an antibiotic to which it is already resistant. Use a dose and an antibiotic that kills the bacteria, and there is no resistance (dead bacteria do not become resistant).

So much for doomsday news.

Remove the antibiotic, and the resistance goes away

E-raq wrote:

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:Gloom, doom, and BS...

UV as a sterilizing agent is not new. It was offered in kitchens in the 50s, and used in hospitals before that. In fact, Niels Ryberg Finsen invented a special UV lamp over 110 years ago that was used up into the 50s, and was awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 1903 for its application in killing bacteria.

Yes, you can use UV to treat your swimming pool, just put your pool outside in the sun.

As for the superbug terror, it sells news. I have yet to see any bacteria that will permanently have resistance. This is the part that is never mentioned in the gloom and doom news. The misuse of antibiotics is a problem, and it does kill people. However, what all this misinformation fails to mention is that bacterial resistance is a metabolic load on the organism. What that means is that a bacteria will only have resistance as long as it is exposed to the specific antibiotic. Remove the antibiotic, and the resistance goes away. Isolated, the bacteria will continue to divide until some progeny of of it does not have the resistance plasmid. The lack of the plasmid means lower metabolic load (it would also mean death if the antibiotic was still present). However, without the need for resistance, it lives and divides... and will divide faster than the bacteria with the metabolic load of having the resistance plasmid. Thus, in X number of generations, the non-resistant form will completely replace the resistant version.

The problem is when the resistance is produced in person "A", and person "A" passes the infection to person "B". The person inherits the resistant bacteria. This is a major problem for the patient, and more work for the doctor. Cultures and antibiograms need to be done, and guessing which antibiotic to use in the meantime can mean life and death until the results come back in a few days. However, “Superbug” is not anything super. It is just a bacteria that is resistant because it is continually encouraged to be by being given an antibiotic to which it is already resistant. Use a dose and an antibiotic that kills the bacteria, and there is no resistance (dead bacteria do not become resistant).

So much for doomsday news.

Well well well. if it isn't Dr. Sam. No dear, pools in the sun do not sterilize themselves. Why don't you try that on your pool and get back to us on that. Couple of weeks should be good. Remember now, no chlorine. Oh yes invite some little kids over for a pee. Orinoterapia, I heard it's good for you. NOT.

How about MRSA? Kinda hard to ignore that one, then there's always Pseudomonas A. Oh hey, great ides put a nice dollop of Pseudomonas A. in your pool after the kiddies have peed in it. Leave it a couple of more weeks and you have a nice toxic soup to swim in. Be sure and splash some in your eyes. Pseudomonas aeruginosa loves eyeballs. From there of course it can affect every organ in your body. After that you know where it goes, into the bloodstream. Septicemia. Ooop's sorry the patient died, we tried everything but it was just one of those things.

Oh BTW ladies and gentlemen, Pseudomonas A. also really likes stuff down below. I know one guy who got a urinary tract infection which took 4 months to clear up in the U.S. after swimming in one of the pools which was "sterilized in the sun". Guess the bacteriology department down here messed up on the C and S testing, because he had to go NOB to get cured!

ferret wrote:Dr. Thelin wrote "

Remove the antibiotic, and the resistance goes away

"

Please Dr. Thelin, will you post a link to back up this statement? I suppose you are still prescribing Penicllin for Gonorrhea?

Do you think that the CDC is into scare mongering?
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-08-09/cdc-gonorrhea-treatment/56890288/1

http://www.cdc.gov/getsmart/antibiotic-use/antibiotic-resistance-faqs.html

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/resistance.htm

ferret wrote: I suppose you are still prescribing Penicllin for Gonorrhea?

ferret wrote:That works only in a closed environment like a Chemostat where you are dealing with only one kind of bacteria. Yes, the plasmid can be lost through cell division and may not be transfered to both daughter cells.
But bacteria are notoriously smart and promiscuous and nor are they bigots. They can receive plasmid from other bacteria via horizontal transfer...especially if their survival depends on it.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-plasmid-antibiotic-resistance.htm

I did find this article (which is easy to read) which makes mention of your concept "take away the antibiotic and the resistance goes away". It would probably work in a totally sterile environment and how long would you have to stay in that bubble. The discussion at the end of the article is very interesting. It would appear that even those of us who have avoided antibiotics (for obvious reasons) are still exposed to resistant bacteria in our environment, from other people and animals, and from the food we consume. We're f*&#ed.
http://www.tufts.edu/med/apua/about_issue/ecology_3_1402951595.pdf

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:Yes, we usually get the antibiotic-resistant infections from other people.

The "public health" answer is use the "first line" antibiotics first, then if they do not work, go to second line, and then if that does not work, and the patient is still alive, go to an antibiotic with less known resistance. That way the "good" antibiotics are not over-used.

The personal survival method is use whatever everyone else is not using, and use the full dose of it to make sure every last bacteria is resting in peace. Using 3 antibiotics at the same time also is a good way to greatly reduce any bacteria living through the treatment to cause resistance. The key is kill them all. Dead bacteria do not produce resistance. Antibiograms can be used to confirm effectiveness of the antibiotic, or need to change it.

The worst thing is to underdose, especially long-term (as in the cattle industry) or to discontinue treatment and not take the full course of treatment.

ferret wrote:That works only in a closed environment like a Chemostat where you are dealing with only one kind of bacteria. Yes, the plasmid can be lost through cell division and may not be transfered to both daughter cells.
But bacteria are notoriously smart and promiscuous and nor are they bigots. They can receive plasmid from other bacteria via horizontal transfer...especially if their survival depends on it.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-plasmid-antibiotic-resistance.htm

I did find this article (which is easy to read) which makes mention of your concept "take away the antibiotic and the resistance goes away". It would probably work in a totally sterile environment and how long would you have to stay in that bubble. The discussion at the end of the article is very interesting. It would appear that even those of us who have avoided antibiotics (for obvious reasons) are still exposed to resistant bacteria in our environment, from other people and animals, and from the food we consume. We're f*&#ed.
http://www.tufts.edu/med/apua/about_issue/ecology_3_1402951595.pdf

ferret wrote:E-raq, one of the biggest problems in a microbiology lab is getting properly taken samples to do a Culture and Sensitivity...especially in the areas where there is normal flora involved as well. Nurses in hospitals are notorious for leaving samples at room temperature instead of refrigerating them.
The easiest to do are from areas where nothing is supposed to be growing...like a blood culture, cerebral spinal fluid or a "wound".
At least you can do a gram stain on those immediately and give the Doctor an idea if he/she's dealing with a gram positive or negative cocci or rod.
By the time a C&S is done, you're looking at a minimum of 48 hours and timing may be critical if the patient is very sick so Doctors start them on SOMETHING, usually a Broad Spectrum antibiotic. It's kinda like using an assault rifle to kill a fly. Multiple antibiotic combos have the same effect.
In a perfect world, no antibiotics would be given until the C&S indicated which one would target the offending bacteria like a sniper.
Now if we could just stop that antibiotic from killing off all the good bacteria (normal flora) as well. That normal flora, especially in the gut, is a HUGE part of the defense in your immune system.
I'd like to say "Eat your yogurt" but now I'm wondering if yogurt is coming from cows that have received low dose antibiotics. ????? I think I'll stick with Lactobacillus in capsule form. I don't want to get overrun with Candida and/or parasites either.

ferret wrote:Gringal...as you always say "follow the money". There is so much information on the internet now (that is easily understood) that it really pays to take the time and look stuff up. Most especially reports of drug interactions and/or side effects and/or consumer reports.

E-raq...bacteria are being grown in colonies on specific agar plates. Samples that have an overgrowth of normal flora can easily mask a pathogen which is why you need the "arrested development" of refrigeration to maintain the status quo.
You're not growing parasites on an agar plate. Still, if the samples weren't refrigerated, they might give an indication of more parasites than reality...hanky panky at room temperature. MHO, of course, because parasitology is not an area in which I spent a lot of time during my working years. Part of the study syllabus...yes. Practical hands on work experience...no.