US government tells computer users to disable Java

Interesting article.

http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/news/business-news/us-government-tells-computer-users-to-disable-java-2

LOL....Almost all stuff like this has security problems. Disable it if you want but
stuff will not work without Java. I am not worried. Believe me you folks running
XP have more risks than you getting hit by a Java bug under win 7. Pick your
biggest risk and eliminate it. XP is a much bigger risk and yes I know you want
to keep it forever. 80% of all computer fraud happens on XP machines patched
or unpatched LOL. If you do keep XP make sure you run an updated virus checker,
spyware checker once every couple of weeks, and do the microsoft updates and
don't forget to keep office patched as an unpached Office can be security trouble
with XP.

Z

Z

Just got an automatic update on Java. I bet they have things patched now. It took five days to turn up. If this concerns you get your Java updated.



Z

Java is fixed but if people don't update the risk is pretty ugly:

http://tech.ca.msn.com/oracle-says-java-is-fixed-feds-maintain-warning-3

Merry

merry wrote:Java is fixed but if people don't update the risk is pretty ugly:

http://tech.ca.msn.com/oracle-says-java-is-fixed-feds-maintain-warning-3

Merry

Yes Merry but remember who is giving you the warnings. Organizations whose best
interests are in scarying people TSA and the security and virus checker companies.
They all have an interest in keeping people scared and making money or keeping jobs.

LOL

Folks things like this happen all the time and most of the time you don't know it. This
one was public. Many are not. I don't believe Java is the most abused by criminals
software LOL. I bet XP and Office or Keystroke recorders which are not found by most
virus checkers. Who knows? I don't have much faith in the government being computer
savvy other than NSA and parts of the defence department. TSA or Homeland security
are not thought of very highly amoung the higher end of the private enterprise computer
world. I am not saying these folks don't have good people but they usually suffer from
the normal government managment practices that insure anybody smart will suffer in
his career and no good idea will ever be implemented unless it comes from inside and
from the right people. Smart is not looked upon as a good employee trait in a government
worker I am sorry to say. Oracle which owns Java I trust computer wise more than the
government and they say Java is now safe. Time will tell but I just don't worry about
such stuff.

So you want to be safe? Contrary to what the government says 80% of all computer
crime worldwide involves XP and older versions of office not Java LOL. Update your
computer to win 7 or win 8 if you have a touchscreen. Run Microsoft update weekly.
Use a virus checker. Microsoft Security Essentials is free and runs well. AGV is free
and runs well. Others available. I do not suggest Norton or Mcafee. They cost money
and every year you have to deal with them and they are less efficient than the free
ones. Yes some of you with older computers probably shouldn't update from XP but
at least make sure you have all the patches and updates. I run spybot weekly to look
for trojans and such. It is also free.

I don't ever have problems. I have lost one computer to a virus or a trojan type attack
and it was a new computer and I couldn't get the virus checker to work fast enough
when doing the install. If you stay current and do your security homework you probably
won't have problems. If you don't take care of your machine you probably will.

Hope this helps and don't forget to backup in case none of this works.

We will see if Helperguy has anything to add on this subject.

Z

Zed is pretty much correct on all points. This is really a loaded topic. I don't use anti-virus or anti-spyware on my computers. I gave up long ago. (I do test the various tools for my customers, and I currently recommend ClamWin for those that want an antivirus tool. Or Microsoft Security Essentials, which comes with Windows 7.) I have never been attacked (knock on wood) except by a pirated copy of Adobe Acrobat, which I downloaded myself.

In the industry it's well-known that any of the tools are only 95% effective. And it's that 5% gap that the creators of malware spend all their time on. This week, a customer's laptop with a fresh, secure copy of Windows 7 got hit with a smart spyware--a program that looks like a Microsoft security tool--and we had to reinstall Windows all over again after only two weeks of use.

It came in through a "drive-by": ie, some website was infected, and as her browser touched on it briefly (we'll never know which website), the spyware program transferred to her computer. The website owner, I'm sure, has no idea.

Running an antispyware tool on that PC showed dozens of problems, but no way to determine which ones were the culprits; they probably multiplied because of the first hit.

The best strategy is to never click on an email link from someone that is unfamiliar to you. This is the only way to get a virus. All the rest is from the Web, and installs crap that cannot be referred to as viruses. There is lots more to say on the subject, but I'll pull back for now because of the inevitable boredom factor that sets in when reading long posts...

Note that I never turned off Java, for precisely the reason Zed gave: too many web pages rely on it. I do ensure that Java and Flash are kept updated (which isn't hard because they are forever popping up messages to that effect).

If you have dicipline what Helperguy says is true if you don't have dicipline and
go all over the web and download all kinds of stuff I think one would be better
with a virus checker and malware checker. I also look and do a deep clean once
a month but I am using a enterprise level tool from my former work. Helperguy
is right my virus checker and spybot don't find much and my deep clean finds
much more much of it suspicious. I also run a program that tells me when something
is trying to change something on my computer. It is a battle with
the bad guys fighting the good guys and frankly the bad guys win most of the
time. My wife has no dicipline about where she goes or what she opens as she is
clueless with this stuff so I run everything. It would be interesting Helperguy if we
had two identical machines run antivirus and malware on one and nothing on the
other what would happen going to identical sites for both machines?

If you are wondering why Helperguy and I mildly disagree it is because computer
people do disagree about certain subjects and like life many things in computers
are not black or white but gray. Notice how polite we are about this issue. We
know it is debatable.

Z

Ack, I don't have any discipline on the Web, other than common sense. I hits dozens of sites every day, either in the pursuit of answers for customers, or looking for various bits of software that fit my needs for the day or for the job.

A note of interest: if you install an antivirus tool and your machine is clean, what is the purpose of running a deep scan? None. Because if you find something, that means your tool is not protecting you in the first place. If it lets something in, it's because it didn't recognize it as dangerous, and it won't be able to fix it.

But Zed, please tell us if you can which program you run that tells you when something is trying to change your computer. Is it something the "average" user can install and that won't drive them crazy?

HelperGuy wrote:Ack, I don't have any discipline on the Web, other than common sense. I hits dozens of sites every day, either in the pursuit of answers for customers, or looking for various bits of software that fit my needs for the day or for the job.

A note of interest: if you install an antivirus tool and your machine is clean, what is the purpose of running a deep scan? None. Because if you find something, that means your tool is not protecting you in the first place. If it lets something in, it's because it didn't recognize it as dangerous, and it won't be able to fix it.

But Zed, please tell us if you can which program you run that tells you when something is trying to change your computer. Is it something the "average" user can install and that won't drive them crazy?

Yes but HelperGuy you don't go where my wife goes LOL. She has no common sense as she is a lawyer. ( I am sure I will pay for that). To be fair
I don't know crap about taxes but she can figure it out and be clever so its not about brains but computer skills and rules she has a hard time.

Well one reason for doing a deep scan is I have to turn off my viruschecker sometimes to do certain things. My system is open quite often depending
on what I am doing. I can think of others but would rather not as they involve some internal security knowledge.


No I doubt if your customers would want to run the software as it learns of changes and which ones are OK and which ones are bad. It is high level
security software that I can't share as it is owned by my former company. But you might want to check out the Spybot innoculation options also
you might try running teatimer (spybot real time checker) with a weekly spybot scan. Teatimer is very efficent and I would be comfortable with
using teatimer and spybot as my only protection. Don't run Teatimer with any other virus checker as performance will suffer and be careful adding
spybot to not check the teatimer box if you want to use another real time virus checker. You have to be full admin to run the innoculation option.

Z

I no longer recommend or use TeaTimer or Spybot. They are out of date and are not keeping up with current technologies. Spybot frequently gives false positives. However, neither of them can hurt anything.

What it comes down to for me is this: the whole world lives in a state of fear about everything, promoted intensely by the cable news channels and special interests. In the computer world, some of those special interests are the antivirus companies, who make a ton of money selling this stuff. It is in their best interests to continue to promote a state of fear among users, and all our protective software are the biggest sellers of all programs. NOTE that Microsoft barely spends any public time pushing or discussing their own security software. Why? Because internally they just don't have the paranoia that everyone else is pushing.

I do not have this security fear, and I don't get hit with this stuff, either.

The best way to protect your information is get an old laptop, erase the Windows (crap) and install Linux. Linux is free and is usually packaged with all the applications you need (called a 'distro') including Firefox, graphics, music and video. The desktop will look different than Windows, but will have the same navigation. Here is one Linux I like http://linuxmint.com/. There is another super slim version called Puppy Linux. It can run off a flash drive. Many computer professionals travel with the flash drive and boot the computer from it. Linux is completely anonymous online and there is no spyware or malware that can affect it. Did I mention it is completely free.

HelperGuy wrote:...This is really a loaded topic. I don't use anti-virus or anti-spyware on my computers...
In the industry it's well-known that any of the tools are only 95% effective. ...

Oh, HelperGuy, very few people have the background knowledge to do what you are saying. This is like endorsing sex with strangers without condoms because condoms are not 100% effective... sure it might be done by a few with advanced knowledge of epidemiology, like you, but the vast unwashed masses need bullet points to be safe.

I've used AVG Free since it first came out, maybe 12 or more years ago, with no incidents. It's free, they are constantly working on that 5% and updating it daily, the nightly scan verifies that the 5% did not appear in the last 24 hours. Let me recommend this to the 99% of the population who don't understand the esoteric shades of gray you and Zed are talking about: http://free.avg.com/ww-en/free-antivirus-download

Merry

I am really surprised that HelperGuy doesn't make the distinction between Java and Javascript. The latter is what is needed for web pages to work and the former is what is not needed. Look up Leo on Twit TV if you need verification from YouTube.

Ex, I'm quite sure HelperGuy meant exactly what he said; to a techie that's like confusing ser and estar.

Java is used on game websites, 3D maps, financial trading sites, and other sites with calculation-heavy content. It's also used for offline programs like Adobe Creative Suite, OpenOffice/LibreOffice, and many ebook readers.

Merry

CHILLIN wrote:The best way to protect your information is get an old laptop, erase the Windows (crap) and install Linux. Linux is free and is usually packaged with all the applications you need (called a 'distro') including Firefox, graphics, music and video. The desktop will look different than Windows, but will have the same navigation. Here is one Linux I like http://linuxmint.com/. There is another super slim version called Puppy Linux. It can run off a flash drive. Many computer professionals travel with the flash drive and boot the computer from it. Linux is completely anonymous online and there is no spyware or malware that can affect it. Did I mention it is completely free.

+1 to most of this. First you don't need an old laptop, however the nice thing about Linux is it does not hog as many resources as MS and CAN be ran on an old laptop. Second Linux can be affected by spyware or malware, however it is less common and the code is updated (patched) more frequently than MS. I my self like and use Mint. For security or servers, I recommend Ubuntu as it is patched even more frequently. With both of these you still need to keep them up to date... sudo apt-get update / sudo apt-get upgrade (ubuntu). But this is just my $.02

exajijicresident wrote:I am really surprised that HelperGuy doesn't make the distinction between Java and Javascript. The latter is what is needed for web pages to work and the former is what is not needed. Look up Leo on Twit TV if you need verification from YouTube.

I strongly recomment looking up TWIT TV. Leo Laporte is a great entertaining source of information. I suggest you start with This Week In Tech which
is live on sunday. Leo is a great guy and a wonderful guy to hang out with. A chinese Major believe it or not. He has been around for years but is
probably most famous for Screen Savers a show on ZDTV. There podcast are in HDTV and run quite well down here live using medium speed
telmex DSL. He has people like Jerry Pournell or Dvorak on his shows. Fun stuff and you learn a lot. He was fun to hang out with at Comdex with
Patrick Norton in the old days. I miss Comdex.

Z

tictoc wrote:

CHILLIN wrote:The best way to protect your information is get an old laptop, erase the Windows (crap) and install Linux. Linux is free and is usually packaged with all the applications you need (called a 'distro') including Firefox, graphics, music and video. The desktop will look different than Windows, but will have the same navigation. Here is one Linux I like http://linuxmint.com/. There is another super slim version called Puppy Linux. It can run off a flash drive. Many computer professionals travel with the flash drive and boot the computer from it. Linux is completely anonymous online and there is no spyware or malware that can affect it. Did I mention it is completely free.

+1 to most of this. First you don't need an old laptop, however the nice thing about Linux is it does not hog as many resources as MS and CAN be ran on an old laptop. Second Linux can be affected by spyware or malware, however it is less common and the code is updated (patched) more frequently than MS. I my self like and use Mint. For security or servers, I recommend Ubuntu as it is patched even more frequently. With both of these you still need to keep them up to date... sudo apt-get update / sudo apt-get upgrade (ubuntu). But this is just my $.02

FYI linux is great but the Graphical User Interphase on top of linux may not be the right thing for many users here however if you have an old PC or laptop give it a try. So many flavors and such. Bored with Macs and MS PC's try linux that will keep you busy for a while. I used HPUX (HP version
of UNIX) for what seems eons. Linux and UNIX are very secure and it both can be as simple or complex as you want. Good 2 cents tictoc. Apple
current operating systems are based on BSD UNIX with an apple GUI put on top. Linux, UNIX system 5 (??), HPUX, BSD are all flavors of UNIX.
Linux boxes make excellent servers if you are into that.

Z

Zedinmexico wrote:

Linux boxes make excellent servers if you are into that.

Z

Ubuntu server FTW. That what I run my web server on. The majority of the world runs Linux for web servers. This site is undoubtedly running on Linux.

P.S.
I really like Mint for the "average" desktop user. The Graphical User Interphase is a lot like MS, plus the free stuff is great (office, audio edit, video edit, etc).

merry wrote:Oh, HelperGuy, very few people have the background knowledge to do what you are saying. This is like endorsing sex with strangers without condoms because condoms are not 100% effective... sure it might be done by a few with advanced knowledge of epidemiology, like you, but the vast unwashed masses need bullet points to be safe. Merry

I'm rolling on the floor laughing. That's a great analogy, but not an accurate one. Seriously, the single advantage I have in this area is that I have done gazillions of computers and bazillions of tests, and now know that it's pointless. It is not because I am more careful than anyone else; hell, I'm flagrant when it comes to disregarding where I visit on the Web. Honest.

exajijicresident wrote:I am really surprised that HelperGuy doesn't make the distinction between Java and Javascript. The latter is what is needed for web pages to work and the former is what is not needed. Look up Leo on Twit TV if you need verification from YouTube.

Java and Javascript are both OOP languages, distantly related. However, the point here is that Homeland Security specifically asked people to disable Java. That's because the Sun/Oracle implementation of Java is the one that everyone sees in their web browser. Besides, I'm sure there are plenty of readers already confused with the terminology in this thread.

Zedinmexico wrote: He has people like Jerry Pournell or Dvorak on his shows. Fun stuff and you learn a lot. He was fun to hang out with at Comdex with
Patrick Norton in the old days. I miss Comdex.

I miss Peter Norton. I wonder what he would have to say about Symantec's bloated version of his supercool software.

HelperGuy wrote:

Zedinmexico wrote: He has people like Jerry Pournell or Dvorak on his shows. Fun stuff and you learn a lot. He was fun to hang out with at Comdex with
Patrick Norton in the old days. I miss Comdex.

I miss Peter Norton. I wonder what he would have to say about Symantec's bloated version of his supercool software.

Oh what a scream yes you are right on that one.
Had not thought of him in years. Remember Norton Speed Disk!
Before Gibson became our registered Geek hard disk God LOL.

Z

Something is wrong the string has not degenerated into insults. We must all
be on our best behavior.

Maybe Geeks are used to dealing with REAL problems. LOL.

I can remember eagerly waiting for the next issue of "Byte"magazine to come out -now THAT is geeeky