Crazy Drivers in Ajijic

I just got back from Sayulita and that drive over that last mountain (or the first one driving back) has got to be the most insane stretch of road anywhere. I can not believe the things people do, the chances they take...and these are NOT old gringos. They are idiots driving buses and cars full of families. They will not allow you to keep a safe distance behind the car in frount of you, they will pass you on a curve and nearly take your bumper off trying to squeeze in before they cause a head on collision. Crates of oranges and such that have been flung from the overloaded truck careening down the side of the mountain litter the side of the road. You can't count the crosses on the side of the road.
I haven't ridden as a passenger in the car with my husband in 12 years. I always drive and I drive a big ass Dodge Ram truck. Mexican drivers are nuts.

Ms.Thang wrote:I just got back from Sayulita and that drive over that last mountain (or the first one driving back) has got to be the most insane stretch of road anywhere. I can not believe the things people do, the chances they take...and these are NOT old gringos. They are idiots driving buses and cars full of families. They will not allow you to keep a safe distance behind the car in frount of you, they will pass you on a curve and nearly take your bumper off trying to squeeze in before they cause a head on collision. Crates of oranges and such that have been flung from the overloaded truck careening down the side of the mountain litter the side of the road. You can't count the crosses on the side of the road.
I haven't ridden as a passenger in the car with my husband in 12 years. I always drive and I drive a big ass Dodge Ram truck. Mexican drivers are nuts.

It's interesting there aren't more accidents than there are.... of course... when there is an accident... it's a dousey...
Ever notice all the flowers adorning the roadways?

Ms.Thang wrote:I just got back from Sayulita and that drive over that last mountain (or the first one driving back) has got to be the most insane stretch of road anywhere. I can not believe the things people do, the chances they take...and these are NOT old gringos. They are idiots driving buses and cars full of families. They will not allow you to keep a safe distance behind the car in frount of you, they will pass you on a curve and nearly take your bumper off trying to squeeze in before they cause a head on collision. Crates of oranges and such that have been flung from the overloaded truck careening down the side of the mountain litter the side of the road. You can't count the crosses on the side of the road.
I haven't ridden as a passenger in the car with my husband in 12 years. I always drive and I drive a big ass Dodge Ram truck. Mexican drivers are nuts.

I was gritting my teeth reading your post because I've driven that road so many times...and the drivers are nuts.
I call the road between Sayulita and PV "The Testosterone Alley"...and it's not a gas pedal, it's a testosterone pedal. The majority of those drivers are male and the risks they take are ridiculous. They only get to the first set of lights in Bucerias a few minutes ahead of me...why on earth they take risks like that is totally beyond my comprehension.
Glad you're back safe and sound.

I'm guessing Ms. Thang was referring to the pass between Compostela and Las Varas. But yes, anywhere between....say... Lo de Marcos and Bucerias on HWY 200 is thrilling as well. Everybody is working it in their own way, and you really need to stay engaged at the wheel. To say the least.

hockables wrote:

Ms.Thang wrote:I just got back from Sayulita and that drive over that last mountain (or the first one driving back) has got to be the most insane stretch of road anywhere. I can not believe the things people do, the chances they take...and these are NOT old gringos. They are idiots driving buses and cars full of families. They will not allow you to keep a safe distance behind the car in frount of you, they will pass you on a curve and nearly take your bumper off trying to squeeze in before they cause a head on collision. Crates of oranges and such that have been flung from the overloaded truck careening down the side of the mountain litter the side of the road. You can't count the crosses on the side of the road.
I haven't ridden as a passenger in the car with my husband in 12 years. I always drive and I drive a big ass Dodge Ram truck. Mexican drivers are nuts.

It's interesting there aren't more accidents than there are.... of course... when there is an accident... it's a dousey...
Ever notice all the flowers adorning the roadways?

Mexico has the best "bad" drivers of anywhere in the world. If people drove like we do here in Mexico anywhere else, they would close the hiways because of the carnage.

I used to live down there too and drive that Compostela/Las Varas section often as well. Even oftener, the Hwy 200 north and south. It is absolutely amazing the risks those idiot drivers will take on blind curves and even barreling straight ahead passing loooooong lines of traffic in a commercial bus. Full of innocent passengers! They crash all the time. So do drunk passenger cars on the weekends. I've seen these 'passhole' drivers run innocent oncoming traffic off the road and into the jungle. Some weekends back to back crashes. I had some friends in Protection Civil, wanna see some gory photos?

Gotta go with Ferret on this one, never have seen a woman driving in any of the ugly scenarios. Testosterone + ETOH = Tombstones Unfortunately, often for the innocent victims.

I think those of you bitching about drivers anywhere in Jalisco, including that stretch of road near Puerto Vallarta, had better avoid driving down to Southern Mexico where I live about 1/2 of each year. From our home in San Cristóbal de Las Casas we drive all over Chiapas, Oaxaca State, Veracruz State, the Yucatan Peninsula and Tabasco. Driving in Southern Mexico seems absolutely anarchic and the rules of the road down there are different from up here. For the uninitiated there appear to be no rules but there are, in fact, some important rules for you to understand if you are to survive. One of the most important rules is, that if the car or truck or bus behind you is going faster than you are you are required to get out of the way if there is any shoulder at all upon which you can drive to let the other driver pass. If you run over a pedestrian or ram a parked vehicle on that shoulder that´s your fault. If there is no shoulder then you are supposed to speed up in order to be polite and avoid being rear ended but that´s your election and your macho instincts may require you to actually slow down - it´s complicated. You get used to these local eccentricities over time.

Keep in mind that, despite the fact that there are posted speed limits on Southern Mexico highways, there is by customary dictate, no speed limit and if you are maintaining the posted limit of 110KPH on most autopistas, you are standing still relative to most other traffic. In six years of living down there I have never even once observed a traffic stop unless the driver was a brown skinned Central American with a truck full of Guatemaltecos.

The most dangerous city to drive in in Southern Mexico is Oaxaca City where anarchy rules at all times of day and night. The most dangerous rural roads (and that´s saying something down there because the competition is fierce) are in Veracruz State from the Tamaulipas line to Tabasco and Chiapas. Other dangerous large cities for driving include Tuxtla Gutierrez and Villahermosa. In addition to rural roads, two lane autopistas with broad shoulders are, in fact, considered by locals to be four lane divided highways and if you are driving these toll roads and somone behind you is driving faster than you you are required by local custom to drive on the shoulder until that car passes you. This is not a suggesstion but a required by custom deferential move on your part even though driving on the shoulder is illegal. Failure to pull over to the shoulder will result is your being tailgated within an inch of your bumper and you risk confrontation plus the failure to pull over is considered the height of rudeness and an antisocial act. After you get used to it it is kind of nice that cars pull over for faster traffic and nobody gets in your way the way they do in Calñifornia.

The local papers down there may not report on cartel violence as a rule but they are full of highway accident gore or dead, sprawling bodies of murder or drowning victims and/or full page T&A spreads of buxom chicks. It´s a nice change from Jalisco.

Those of you put off by the dangerous stretch of road from Compostela to Las Jaras, a truly dangerous stretch of road to be sure, should join me on the highways of Southeastern Mexico and that experience will help you relax on that next drive to Puerto Vallarta.

Ah, I can see that everyone is familiar with the stretch of road I am referring to, a drive most all of us have made. The "passholes" on that road are always men. and too often bus drivers.
The first time I made that trip I was in the back seat of a compact car slap full of me and Mexicans. I was the only one freaking out, bitching and moaning. They kept saying "tranquila, guera" and offered me Tequila to calm my gringa nerves.
I have observed that Mexicans are never in a hurry untill they get behind the wheel of a car, and then it's pedal to the metal no matter what the time frame is.
Of course they were probably hating on me and anyone else taking those curves at the speed limit.
Hound dog, it took me years to realize that a left blinker is a signal to pass, southern Mexico driving sounds just charming, a lot like driving in nayarit.

IMO, In general, Mexico's drivers are the worst I have seen in any country, State or Province that I have driven in. Granted, I have not driven in every Country or State. I have driven in Portugal, Switzerland, Montreal, Toronto, Mississauga, Niagra Falls, Quebec City, New Brunswick, PEI, Nova Scotia, Maine, NH, Vt, Mass, RI, Conn, NYC, NJ, Penn, VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, TN, TX, Utah, AZ, Montana and CA.

The most polite drivers I have encountered were in Montreal and Toronto.

I agree on that stretch of road between Compostela and Puerto Vallarta. Have driven it once and been on 8 bus trips thru the area.

[quote="Ms.Thang"]Ah, I can see that everyone is familiar with the stretch of road I am referring to, a drive most all of us have made. The "passholes" on that road are always men. and too often bus drivers.... Of course they were probably hating on me and anyone else taking those curves at the speed limit.
Hound dog, it took me years to realize that a left blinker is a signal to pass, southern Mexico driving sounds just charming, a lot like driving in nayarit.[/quote]

Ms. Thang:

In Southern Mexico, insane driving and dangerous passing are engeged in equally by both sexes although if there are both men and women in a vehicle, it is customary for a man to drive and any man allowing a woman to drive would be considered less than a man. One can only hope that the driver is an adult human and has all his/her marbles or at least some of them. The favorite pastime in Oaxaca City among taxi drivers is to swerve in and out of traffiic continually and almost have accidents - the closer the call the better - so they can watch foreign customers cringe and, while most taxi drivers in Oaxaca can´t speak English, they all know how to say, "I scare you, no? Not worry, I best taxi driver in city. I get you there fast." Later, at the sitio, he and his fellow taxi drivers love to swap tales of foreign passengers wetting their pants.

hey hound dog - Love your avatar of Diego with the Tequila glass! LOL

I am particularly interested in the Dawg's comments about the driving habits in Southern Mexico since we will be headed that way in just over a week. In the interest of documenting such behavior, I recently picked up a "windshield mount" for our mini video cam. I will be recording sections of our drives not only on cuotas but also in Oaxaca City, the towns and villages surrounding Oaxaca City, Puebla, Morelia, etc. Once we return, I plan to edit these videos into what I hope to be entertaining videos.

Along similar lines, I picked up what I will call a "tope counter" to log the number of topes along various sections.

[quote="johninajijic"]IMO, In general, Mexico's drivers are the worst I have seen in any country, State or Province that I have driven in. Granted, I have not driven in every Country or State....

I can assure you, John, just from my own experience, Mexican drivers are not in contention for the top spot among bad drivers. I. like you and everyone else, have hardly experienced traffic in but a fraction of the world´s nations but, among those countries I have visited where I experienced a significant amount of urban and highway traffic, I would rate the worst drivers as driving in (by terror scale - top ten):
* India
* Egypt
* Nepal
* Thailand
* Morocco
* Ethiopia
* East Africa (Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania)
* France (prior to the 1970s crackdown)
* Chinese drivers in San Francisco (generally speaking)
* Texans

CheenaGringo wrote:....Along similar lines, I picked up what I will call a "tope counter" to log the number of topes along various sections.

The tope champ in my experience is the main highway between San Cristóbal de Las Casas and Palenque via Ocosingo, a distance of about 220 kilometers and a good , well maintained road. Because there are over 200 topes on this road, the majority unmarked or poorly marked and some in rural zones for no apparent reason, this drive, which should take about two hours, takes about five hours if you are lucky enough to arrive in Palenque with your axle intact. Many of these topes are purposefully very dangerous and require driving over with great care as most are in indigenous pueblos who intensely dislike the rude motorists who, in the absence of these speed barriers would barrel though their often congested communities at breakneck speeds in total disreguard for the lives of the locals.

They are in the process of constructing a new autopista from San Cristóbal to Palenque via Tenejapa but are in constant semi-warfare with indigenous communities along the way who are attempting to block the thoroughfare physically compromising their communities and farm lands.

Governing in Chiapas is like walking on eggshells and there is a certain tension in the air.

Having received my very first drivers license while living in Bombay, India, I have to agree with the Dawg's assessment that the world's worst drivers are in India! That said, it was great training for tackling drivers in many other parts of the world. For some entertainment, check out any of these videos:





One rule was drilled into my head about driving in India - NEVER stop for an accident of any type!

CheenaGringo wrote:I am particularly interested in the Dawg's comments about the driving habits in Southern Mexico since we will be headed that way in just over a week. In the interest of documenting such behavior, I recently picked up a "windshield mount" for our mini video cam. I will be recording sections of our drives not only on cuotas but also in Oaxaca City, the towns and villages surrounding Oaxaca City, Puebla, Morelia, etc. Once we return, I plan to edit these videos into what I hope to be entertaining videos.

Along similar lines, I picked up what I will call a "tope counter" to log the number of topes along various sections.

Oh, what a great idea! can't wait to see the video.

I have heard about those drivers in india especially, it's a miracle that the Dawg is still with us to tell the tale. Love the taxi driver story, Dawg. There is a taxi driver in Jamaica that surely has one about me.
I have considered your comment that there are an equal # of bad drivers , male and female. Seems to me that most of them are male. So glad I do not have a penis. They seem to affect a persons judgment in so many areas.
I am familiar with the custom that dictates the man should drive. Fortunatly my own Mr. Macho would rather let me drive than listen to me bitch for 5 hours.

...Although looking back on the four serious accidents I have been involved in, two were caused by men and two were caused by women...maybe it is an evn split. Women drivers might be less daring, but also more careless or perhaps less skilled?

The most serious accident I was in was a high speed collision when a woman, bien pedo, left the median and ran out in frount of me on a 4 lane highway in Florida . Totaled my car, my head broke the windshield and my knees smashed in the glovebox (1970's, before I believed in seatbelts). I got out of the car unscathed, walked to the curb and sat down in a bed of fire ants.

LOL, Ms.T, you crack me up.

[quote="CheenaGringo"]Having received my very first drivers license while living in Bombay, India, I have to agree with the Dawg's assessment that the world's worst drivers are in India!

One rule was drilled into my head about driving in India - NEVER stop for an accident of any type![/quote]

Back in the 80s we took a trip to Hong Kong, Thailand and the Malay Peninsula and decided to rent a car and drive from Panang Island, Malaysia to Singapore via the Cameron Highlands and Kuala Lumpur. We rented from Hertz in Georgetown with permission to drop the car off with Hertz in Singapore. We informed the clerk at Hertz of our intinerary and she sternly warned us of one thing we must never do enroute to Singapore while on Malaysian soil. In the event, she informed us, that we ran over and injured or killed any locals in any village or town whether it was our fault or clearly not our fault, we must never EVER stop to wait for the police or render aid but immediately and with utmost haste flee the scene and seek out refuge in the nearest police station or the locals would mercilessly slaughter us no questions asked.

By the way, everyone tailgates in Malaysia and when I say tailgate I don´t mean tailgate as in Mexico which is sissy tailgating; I mean on-your-ass tailgating so close you can smell the breath of your antagonist and the method you might employ in Mexico of slowing down or applyng the brakes as a warning does not compute on the open road in Malaysia but simply annoys the driver on your rear inducing them to come even closer to your butt if at all possible and irritating them to irrational heights of semi-madness. Mexican drivers the worst? In your dreams

Dawg:

In India, those same rules applied to animals, especially cows!

Thank you, CG, for those great videos of traffic anarchy in India. Actually, they may the world´s best drivers considering the fact that the slaughter on the country´s roads in that unadulterated mayhem is not even greater than it actually is which is horrendous. While I cited Egypt as terrible for traffic, I only cited Egypt and Morocco as I have not personally experienced traffic in other Arab countries or in Iran, Pakistan or Afganistan. I hear that traffic in Iran borders on insanity.

Mexico us a piece of cake to drive in - even Oaxaca.

Quoting the Dawg: "Mexico us a piece of cake to drive in......"

That has been my contention for years but many express their disagreement, as is their right.

I used to drive a red moto and wear red helmet. It worked like a magnet.
It was hit several times when parked and slid intoa few times while I was riding. I was cut off lots of times. This was when traffic was much lighter here. Between crazy, young Mexican drivers and old gringos who can't see and have no reflexes every ride was a crap shoot if I would arrive home intact.
I finally decided I better give it up. I miss it but do not miss the danger.

On my second day here, someone explained the traffic rules to me

1. Don't hit anyone

2. Don't let anyone hit you

3. Everything else was just suggestions unless a cop was in view.

jrm30655 wrote:On my second day here, someone explained the traffic rules to me

1. Don't hit anyone

2. Don't let anyone hit you

3. Everything else was just suggestions unless a cop was in view.

You forgot a couple of things:
4. It's OK for a Mexican to make illegal turns and run red lights.

5. The cops are only interested in catching foreign drivers.

johninajijic wrote:

jrm30655 wrote:On my second day here, someone explained the traffic rules to me

1. Don't hit anyone

2. Don't let anyone hit you

3. Everything else was just suggestions unless a cop was in view.

You forgot a couple of things:
4. It's OK for a Mexican to make illegal turns and run red lights.

5. The cops are only interested in catching foreign drivers.

You really should get out more often John. Your cloistered view of life in Mexico is less than that of the Curiosity rover that just landed on Mars.