Articles on the Hillside Construction

From today's INFORMADOR:

http://www.informador.com.mx/primera/2012/361905/6/devastan-cerro-en-chapala-por-casinos.htm
http://www.informador.com.mx/jalisco/2012/361922/6/autoridades-comparten-culpas-en-los-danos-a-el-travesano.htm
http://www.informador.com.mx/jalisco/2012/361924/6/palo-alto-un-fraccionamiento-dentro-del-bosque.htm

The above links are the original Spanish versions. For those of us Spanish challenged:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.informador.com.mx/primera/2012/361905/6/devastan-cerro-en-chapala-por-casinos.htm&usg=ALkJrhhws-6jwF61blegdoMjwTB7ubJC4w
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.informador.com.mx/jalisco/2012/361922/6/autoridades-comparten-culpas-en-los-danos-a-el-travesano.htm&usg=ALkJrhiWGN_6C11rVFgeVquepCJDuSOvlQ
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.informador.com.mx/jalisco/2012/361924/6/palo-alto-un-fraccionamiento-dentro-del-bosque.htm&usg=ALkJrhg5eaqL9WlW8rICtvvhPkptMCYbTQ

Even with the poor Google translations, one gets the idea that there has been plenty of monkey business with most all of these developments!

No surprise about the monkey business. I can't wait to see what happens when the really heavy rains come. Be prepared for landslides that could even reach the libremiento. I can't imagine what kinds of idiots think they can build in that location. All you have to do is look at the problems they've had with similar geology along the Jocotepec bypass, and the devastating slide in San Juan Cosala, to see what is coming. These "mountains" are not solid rock. They are basically made up of unattached rock and soils that turn to grease when saturated.

I'm trying to imagine what a potential homeowner building on that site would be thinking............but then, they hang homes out over the edges of precipices all over the Los Angeles area and elsewhere. Anything for a view.

As a retired general contractor from LA who has worked on some of those cantilivered homes you mentioned I can tell you that the building codes are very demanding on account of the earthquakes and unstable soil conditions,even so I'm not sure I would sleep to soundly in some of the houses I've seen,then again you can't beat the views.
From the glimpes I caught of the road being cut on the hill the last time I saw it I would'nt want to try it at night in the rain.

Absolutely correct about the strict building codes in LA.......but even so, I wouldn't sleep well in one of those cantilevered bedrooms. They do have lovely "smogsets" there. Squared-off sun; slightly green tinge. lol.

viajero wrote:As a retired general contractor from LA who has worked on some of those cantilivered homes you mentioned I can tell you that the building codes are very demanding on account of the earthquakes and unstable soil conditions,even so I'm not sure I would sleep to soundly in some of the houses I've seen,then again you can't beat the views.
From the glimpes I caught of the road being cut on the hill the last time I saw it I would'nt want to try it at night in the rain.

As an ex-owner of a home on the edge of a cliff overlooking the Pacific just south of Devil´s Slide on the San Mateo coast south of San Francisco, I can tell you that that home, which was built in the 1940s 30 feel back from the cliff and had then been there 40 years with no significant cliff erosion when we bought it was, along with all the ocean front homes along the coast there, subject to violent weather in the mid-80s with incredible 50 foot waves and when we awoke one morning we were no longer 30 feet from the cliff´s edge but more like ten feet and our neighbor´s yard was gone and his home was sitting directly on the edge of the precipice requiring that he reconstruct the cliff to make the home once again habitable. Some beachside communities with homes selling well over a million dollars in the early 80s - expensive and exclusive - had disappeared altogether and I´m talking about whole neighborhoods which had totallly vanished into the sea and were on their way to Japan. Our cliffside cottage was a modest and older structure but those exclusive beach homes were built to the strictest California codes. However, we were still there and they weren´t.

When we retired in 2001, we had considered retiring along the Mississippi Gulf Coast in Pass Cristian near Jefferson Davis´ old beach mansion surrounded by ancient live oaks. A magnificent old mansion that had stood in that spot along the coast for over 150 years surviving numerous highly destructive hurricanes. That beach area was, in fact, noted for its beautiful old live oaks with Spanish Moss and many fabulous old homes. Actually, we couldn´t afford to live there so we settled for Lake Chapala. Then along came Katrina and - poof! - Jefferson Davis´ home and all those live oaks disappeared into the ether. Hadwe been able to afford one of those beautiful beach or bay front homes back then, we would have ended up on a treeless beach living in tent.

Finally, the home we lived in on Mobile Bay when we got married in 2001 totally disappeared during Hurricane Frederick in 1979. I mean disappeared with a trace. When we later returned and looked for that cottage on the bay, we could find nothing and remembered that, had we not been so poor in those days, we would perhaps have bought that place.

Don´t mess with Mother Nature. We´ll pass on living atop another precipice or along a seafront subject to hurricanes, thank you. If there is a lottery prize assigning a lot in that new Lakeside subdivision atop the mountain, we will not be buying a ticket.

John
Fill is not stable in an earthquacke ask the people in the Marina in San Francisco.

brigitte wrote:
John
Fill is not stable in an earthquacke ask the people in the Marina in San Francisco.

We don't have earthquakes in Ajijic. We do get very minor tremors from Colima once in a great while that do no damage.

INFORMADOR has a followup article today:

http://www.informador.com.mx/primera/2012/362146/6/casinos-de-chapala-en-zona-riesgosa.htm

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.informador.com.mx/primera/2012/362146/6/casinos-de-chapala-en-zona-riesgosa.htm&usg=ALkJrhhHISwhY_LEHKF5g8SkjT8TWAGkqg

eil quit posting silly things, John is trying to sell his house, let´s not get reality in the middle of Paradise.
There is no risk of any strong earthquake in Ajijic. No falt in Ajijic no problems anywhere around Ajijic. Get it?

@John, incorrect analysis.

1. The Raquet club landslide was caused by a microburst. These are highly destructive and can not be planned for.
2. We do have earthquakes here, although usually quite small.
3. Apparently according to the article posted by C.G. today not only did these ever so clever American Engineers ignore the risks, it appears they were acting in bad faith. There exists an Atlas of risks for the area, and the area we are discussing was listed as one of significant risk. So also apparently these American engineers are dumber than ditchwater.
4. Construction norms were NOT followed, leading to a potentially dangerous situation.
5. Anyone who buys a property built on fill needs their heads examined, and yes that does happen quite frequently here. Blind eyes are turned.

If there are no earthquakes in the area, how come we were told to avoid the area near the lake with the "earthquake fault"? We did. The one good thing about buying an over 100 year old wreck of a house is that it's been there and done that already, whatever it is. At least until Colima erupts.

I think Neil nailed it with the article referred to. Is it possible that the American engineers were....uh...."well compensated" for their work? Also, maybe the compensation was spread around elsewhere before the earth moving equipment arrived. After all, none of them were going to live there.

Just follow the money, as per usual.

CheenaGringo wrote:INFORMADOR has a followup article today:

http://www.informador.com.mx/primera/2012/362146/6/casinos-de-chapala-en-zona-riesgosa.htm

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.informador.com.mx/primera/2012/362146/6/casinos-de-chapala-en-zona-riesgosa.htm&usg=ALkJrhhHISwhY_LEHKF5g8SkjT8TWAGkqg

CG - The translation is poor. Who knows if this article contains any facts!!! I'm sure none of us do. It could have been posted to keep out the developers for Political reasons or others not wanting to have a hotel-casino there.

Why is Chapala stepping in so late after the roadway has been built? If they wanted to stop the project, they could/should have stepped in early. Now the developers have put a permanent blight on that otherwise beautiful mountainside.

All these news articles seem very fishy to me. There's probably a lot of BS in them. Sorry folks, I don't believe much of what I hear in Mexico, most of which is rumor, BS or outright lying. I've been here too long.

Wrong, John:

Chapala, Jalisco (08/MAR/2012). - When changing land uses to facilitate the construction of several resorts in the hill the crossbar, the Municipality of Chapala committed a "serious omission". According to the State Unit of Civil Protection and Fire Jalisco (UEPCBJ), urban development in this area go through problems because they are identified several areas of collapse.

Germain Pinto, director of Evaluation and Monitoring of the main unit and Risk Atlas knowledgeable in the state, confirmed the alert and said that the municipality should have considered hazardous characteristics already known. "If the authorities of the municipalities (are) under the knowledge that is safe, natural or man (contrary to nature), yet authorized and established under a partial plan that you can live, we will automatically talking about is a serious omission by not taking into account risks to optimize a residential land use in a place that represents a risk zone for (future) inhabitants. "

To tell the commander, in the Sierra del crossbar and in the Sierra de Las Vigas (Shared Jocotepec and Chapala) are detected "small estallamientos assets", which prompted the 2006 study in detail. The results of this analysis, in the hands of the Municipality of Chapala, confirmed the danger and detail that will increase substantially during the rains, as there are spaces that can "generate landslides and affect infrastructure or settlements" and that "could generate an earthquake of local or regional characteristics. "

Already known means just that, there's nothng wrong with the translation. This project is a manifestation of corruption, nothing less. I wonder where all these misdirected souls who are protesting the needed aqueduct while they're ignoring something that could, and probably will with the right conditions, wipe out a rather large area and kill a bunch of people.

gringal wrote:If there are no earthquakes in the area, how come we were told to avoid the area near the lake with the "earthquake fault"? We did. The one good thing about buying an over 100 year old wreck of a house is that it's been there and done that already, whatever it is. At least until Colima erupts.

I think Neil nailed it with the article referred to. Is it possible that the American engineers were....uh...."well compensated" for their work? Also, maybe the compensation was spread around elsewhere before the earth moving equipment arrived. After all, none of them were going to live there.

Just follow the money, as per usual.

Precisely, couldn't have said it better myself.

@John, if you read the article in Spanish it is pretty clear what went on.

Maybe open another tab and do a translation yourself, Google is notoriously inaccurate. Furthermore, these articles would not have been printed in the Informador if they did not have considerable substance to them.

raqueteer - Although you and gringal may be right. The Informador wouldn't print them?? Guess they got you fooled. Are you saying all newspapers are honest, just like NOB. NOT. None of them are. There's always an agenda.

And why would an American engineer sign off, put his name to a legal document, then when the hotel-casino has structural damage gets sued by the Developer?

johninajijic wrote:raqueteer - Although you and gringal may be right. The Informador wouldn't print them?? Guess they got you fooled. Are you saying all newspapers are honest, just like NOB. NOT. None of them are. There's always an agenda.

And why would an American engineer sign off, put his name to a legal document, then when the hotel-casino has structural damage gets sued by the Developer?

Well, number one, no I certainly do not believe that all newspapers are honest, or even any of them, however when it comes to making serious allegations such as these no editor worth his salt would take a chance of being sued for calumny here. End of story.

Why would an American engineer sign off on this project? I'm afraid we don't know why that happened, insufficient data.

Anyone else notice that there's not a single word about this on TOB?

Censorship?????

If past patterns are followed, an article will come out tomorrow in the GUADALAJARA REPORTER and then a conversation may get started. Going back to last July, the articles announcing the new casino came out in the local media first.

There is a thread over there now. I started it. So far, a couple of replies.

Well, I'll be darned! There are a few people on TOB that actually do follow the local news.

gringal wrote:There is a thread over there now. I started it. So far, a couple of replies.

Bless you my child. About time the news got around.

Hi all,
Follow this all you want. Foreigners have NO say in Mexico.

FYI, the above construction WILL CONTINUE to completion. No one will stop it.

You don't know how things work here. Wait and see if I am correct.

raqueteer - what news? no one cares.

U CAN"T STOP PROGRESS

Hey............the thread on TOB disappeared already! SPEEDY!