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Dental Health One - Dr. Candy Ugalde

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Post by Lehrer on Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:19 pm

cheers

In the August 2011 issue of El Ojo del Lago (page 53) I saw an advertisement for Dental Health One & Dr. Candy Ugalde. Of special interest to me was the fact that root canals are available, because I had been to Centro Dental about two months ago and consulted with Dr. Jorge Hoyos, who advised that I needed to have two root canals, one of which was a "re-do" because the first procedure was faulty (by a different dentist in Riberas del Pilar)!

(Because Centro Dental isn't equipped to perform root canals, he wanted me to go into Guadalajara to see his partner/specialist for the treatment. I advised him that I would not go into Guadalajara for any reason, and I asked him to recommend a Lakeside dentist. He recommended Dr. Eloy Barragán in Chapala. I made an appointment with him for 10:00 am on the 22nd of August [about a month following the initial consultation, during which time I was in constant pain]. When I arrived for the appointment, his receptionist informed me that the appointment had been unilaterally changed to 11:00 am, although they had tried to contact me by telephone. Imagine that! Those of you who are remotely acquainted with me know that I live on the South Shore of the lake; a trip to Chapala is 50 miles, one-way. Maria & I have to prioritize our activities when we make this 100-mile round-trip; and a deviance of one hour throws the entire schedule off. Needless to say, I lost interest in this dentist immediately.)

Back to my report: Dr. Candy brings in (from Guadalajara) a specialist who performs root canals. Coincidentally, he is the nephew of the Chapala dentist: Dr. Carlos Chávez. Because of my relating my experience at Centro Dental, he took X-rays of the two teeth that supposedly needed root canals. He pronounced that neither of the teeth required a root canal. (Can you believe it?) The supposedly botched root canal from the dentist in Riberas del Pilar was not a problem, he said, because there was no abscess; but the tooth was fractured and the fracture was the cause of the pain. Decision: extraction. The second tooth? There's nothing wrong there -- no abscess or any obvious reason why the tooth might ache. Prognosis: Let's just keep a record of when it hurts and what is causing the pain (such as cold or heat). Then we'll go from there.

So when I went in today I was expecting a bill for $1,800 MXN (or thereabouts) for the 1st root canal (the re-do) and a later visit at a charge of approximately $1,500 MXN for the 2nd root canal. Today's bill was $1,000 MXN for the X-rays and extraction. The best news was that apparently nothing needs to be done for the other tooth (at least not yet).

How often do you run into a dentist like this? Even having one tooth less in my mouth doesn't cool my enthusiasm for these professionals. If you aren't already seeing a "regular" dentist, I recommend you visit Dr. Candy. Her office is in the same complex as Mom's Restaurant in Riberas del Pilar -- the 1st door on the right when you walk through the gate. Office Phone: 106-0826.

cheers
Lehrer
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Post by raqueteer on Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:01 pm

Just a very quick response here.

1. Stay away from any dentist who will not squeeze you in if you're in pain.

2. 50% of all root canals fail, regardless of how talented the professional. Extractions and implants are a better choice.

3. Never consent to anything which has not been confirmed by X-ray, especially root canals.

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Post by gringal on Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:16 pm

Dr. Barragan has been our dentist for over two years, and we are well satisfied with his work. I appreciate his spotless facility, his professionalism and his caring attitude. I have also noticed that, unlike some other dentists both here and in the states, he has never suggested unnecessary procedures.

I'm giving him a plug here since someone trashed the good dentist so thoroughly on TOB that one wonders what got her ire up so highly. IMO, he's one of the best in the area.

When my husband had an emergency, he saw him earlier than office hours to take care of him, and on another occasion, stayed late.

Lehrer's irritation with his scheduling problem is understandable, considering his long trip to this side of the lake, but there has been many an occasion where Ive had to endure long waits at the local medical doctor's office when he's had an emergency or another patient takes longer than expected. I sort of expect things to go amok in Mexico, and I've seldom been disappointed.
Rolling Eyes

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Post by raqueteer on Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:10 pm

gringal wrote:Dr. Barragan has been our dentist for over two years, and we are well satisfied with his work. I appreciate his spotless facility, his professionalism and his caring attitude. I have also noticed that, unlike some other dentists both here and in the states, he has never suggested unnecessary procedures.

I'm giving him a plug here since someone trashed the good dentist so thoroughly on TOB that one wonders what got her ire up so highly. IMO, he's one of the best in the area.

When my husband had an emergency, he saw him earlier than office hours to take care of him, and on another occasion, stayed late.

Lehrer's irritation with his scheduling problem is understandable, considering his long trip to this side of the lake, but there has been many an occasion where Ive had to endure long waits at the local medical doctor's office when he's had an emergency or another patient takes longer than expected. I sort of expect things to go amok in Mexico, and I've seldom been disappointed.
Rolling Eyes

Well now, let's examine the evidence. Shall we?

1. Lehrer, bless his heart, was in constant pain. What dental or medical professional would ignore that? A caring professional? I think not. Pain is a dental emergency.

2. Apparently no one had taken the trouble to take an X-ray to determine what the problem was. It was an oh yeah, you need a couple of root canals. Warning sirens should be going off at this point. Any dental, or medical professional ought to be able to slap up some films on a viewer and explain to the patients satisfaction exactly what is going on. It's not rocket science. Ergo, unnecessary procedures were in this case recommended.

3. Frankly, Lehrer got lucky. He actually found someone who was not X-raying his wallet instead of his teeth.

4. Lehrer, having made a 100 mile round trip to see this marvel of dental technology was summarily dismissed with an ooop's we screwed up. WHAT?

Any responsible licensed professional needs to be, just that. RESPONSIBLE.

Note to Lehrer, the victim. Please notice if your pain is increasing in response to heat. If so, you have a build up of gas inside the tooth due to putrefaction, sorry to say this but root canal may be necessary. If not, you may have a periodontal problem, and will need further intervention. P.M. me for further info if you like.

Good luck.




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Post by gringal on Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:13 pm

Yes, let's examine the facts, by all means. Are you a dentist? Licensed where? (And please, don't just say "you had a practice") Which dentist failed to obtain x-rays but recommended a root canal? Who do you recommend for dental care who meets your standards? So far, it's vague, to say the least.
Curious minds really do want to know.



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Post by raqueteer on Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:55 am

gringal wrote:Yes, let's examine the facts, by all means. Are you a dentist? Licensed where? (And please, don't just say "you had a practice") Which dentist failed to obtain x-rays but recommended a root canal? Who do you recommend for dental care who meets your standards? So far, it's vague, to say the least.
Curious minds really do want to know.




O.K. I was a licensed dental professional with a practice in Canada. Now retired.

Lehrer only mentions x-rays taken by dentist number three. It's pretty hard to imagine how dentist one and dentist two took x-rays and managed to botch the diagnosis. But perhaps Lehrer himself can clear that up for us. To be absolutely fair, some fractures can be a bit tricky to detect.

I might add that a fractured tooth subsequent to a root canal, could have been caused by failure to put on a crown after the procedure, which is normal practice. Once again we are not totally clear, but, let's ask Lehrer himself. Was the fractured tooth the one with the prior root canal?

Who to recommend here at lakeside? I have been pretty disappointed to date, however have had good luck with specialists in Guadalajara. For cleaning, I'd have to say dental express did a very creditable job. I think I may have some x-rays taken there to see how they stack up in that department. If they do a good job, then I would see them for exams, and cleanings. If I do need any minor fillings, then I'd probably stick with them for that too. For major work, I would go to Guadalajara, to a specialist.

One further note to Lehrer. If the pain continues, you might want to have your bite adjusted, before pursuing any further treatment. Malocclusion is frequently a cause of pretty severe pain.





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Post by gringal on Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:52 pm

I gather from the phrase "dental professional" that you are not a dentist, but were in one of the auxiliary professions.

My point was that when we are suggesting that doctors or dentists are failing on some level, we should be very clear about who did or didn't do what to whom, lest their reputations be harmed.

Some of the posts on here were very unclear in that regard.

Going to Guadalajara for dental care seems unduly burdensome when there are so many dentists locally. However, which specialist in Guadalajara would you consider competent?

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Post by Lehrer on Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:56 pm

Wow! I did not intend to open a can of worms! I wanted merely to relate how satisfied I am with Dr. Candy and her colleague, Dr. Carlos. Also, my disappointment with the misdiagnosis of Dr. Hoyos, who -- by the way -- did take X-rays and explain to me that I needed two root canals. Unschooled as I am in dental technology and diagnostics, I placed my trust in his judgment -- which trust, I must confess, I now question.

Dr. Carlos took X-rays for himself and he and Dr. Candy explained to me that an abscess would show up as a dark area on the X-ray -- none were present. I mentioned that Dr. Candy had immediately prescribed an antibiotic (Clendix -- clindamicina) and that I had been taking it for a couple of days already. With the patience of a professional, Dr. Candy explained that a couple of days would not dissipate an abscess -- that it takes days or weeks.

raqueteer wrote:Just a very quick response here.

1. Stay away from any dentist who will not squeeze you in if you're in pain.

2. 50% of all root canals fail, regardless of how talented the professional. Extractions and implants are a better choice.

3. Never consent to anything which has not been confirmed by X-ray, especially root canals.

A little humor here: When I read your comment, I misread at first -- thinking you said, "Stay away from any dentist who will not squeeze you if you're in pain." Dr. Candy, during the extraction by Dr. Carlos, asked me if I would like to take her hand. (What male would refuse?) So, she squeezed my hand (or I hers) while Dr. Carlos did his job.

I have had root canals performed on my teeth in the past, and my experience is far better than the 50% you mention. As a matter of fact, Dr. Carlos and Dr. Candy did not fault the previous root canal, which Dr. Hoyos claimed was a failure.

Centro Dental might be okay for cleanings, but I think my experience justifies my seeking treatment elsewhere.

gringal wrote:Dr. Barragan has been our dentist for over two years, and we are well satisfied with his work. I appreciate his spotless facility, his professionalism and his caring attitude. I have also noticed that, unlike some other dentists both here and in the states, he has never suggested unnecessary procedures.

I'm giving him a plug here since someone trashed the good dentist so thoroughly on TOB that one wonders what got her ire up so highly. IMO, he's one of the best in the area.

When my husband had an emergency, he saw him earlier than office hours to take care of him, and on another occasion, stayed late.

Lehrer's irritation with his scheduling problem is understandable, considering his long trip to this side of the lake, but there has been many an occasion where Ive had to endure long waits at the local medical doctor's office when he's had an emergency or another patient takes longer than expected. I sort of expect things to go amok in Mexico, and I've seldom been disappointed.
Rolling Eyes
I didn't mean to call into question Dr. Barragán's capabilities, especially in view of the fact that his appointment book was jam-packed and that I had to wait a month to see him -- merely that it was inconsiderate to cancel my appointment and move it to 11:00 am without appropriate notice. His office doesn't open until 10:00 am, so I was the 1st scheduled patient and no patient "emergency" shifted his schedule. I don't know what the reason might have been. You mention "medical doctor's office" and I question that this is comparable to a dental office, especially in view of the foregoing statement that I was first on the list. Under those circumstances, I believe I was entitled to expect my appointment time to have been honored, and I feel justified in scratching him off my list of "preferred" professionals, from a personal perspective.

raqueteer wrote:Well now, let's examine the evidence. Shall we?

1. Lehrer, bless his heart, was in constant pain. What dental or medical professional would ignore that? A caring professional? I think not. Pain is a dental emergency.

2. Apparently no one had taken the trouble to take an X-ray to determine what the problem was. It was an oh yeah, you need a couple of root canals. Warning sirens should be going off at this point. Any dental, or medical professional ought to be able to slap up some films on a viewer and explain to the patients satisfaction exactly what is going on. It's not rocket science. Ergo, unnecessary procedures were in this case recommended.

3. Frankly, Lehrer got lucky. He actually found someone who was not X-raying his wallet instead of his teeth.

4. Lehrer, having made a 100 mile round trip to see this marvel of dental technology was summarily dismissed with an ooop's we screwed up. WHAT?

Any responsible licensed professional needs to be, just that. RESPONSIBLE.

Note to Lehrer, the victim. Please notice if your pain is increasing in response to heat. If so, you have a build up of gas inside the tooth due to putrefaction, sorry to say this but root canal may be necessary. If not, you may have a periodontal problem, and will need further intervention. P.M. me for further info if you like.

Good luck.

1) I think Dr. Hoyos should have prescribed antibiotics for the supposed abscess that he observed. My wife (a medical professional) even asked him about it. He said, "Oh, it's draining okay."

2) X-rays were taken at Centro Dental, and I apologize if I gave the impression that they were not. However, I am not trained in their interpretation and am left at the mercy of those who are.

3) The exact reason for my posting this was to recommend Dr. Candy (and associates) because they were honest enough to tell me that root canals were not needed, even though the procedures might have been more "profitable" for them. Seldom have I encountered such honesty.

4) I am at a loss to understand this conclusion. I apologize if I gave that impression. My frustration was in having had to wait for a month or so and find out that Dr. Barragán had arbitrarily moved my appointment to 11:00 am -- when my wife & I take the trouble to arrange a schedule that allows us to take care of our business by priority on a schedule that accommodates those priorities. A 10:00 am appointment should take place at 10:00 am -- not 11:00 am.

The question of pain in the molar is now moot; it was extracted. The problem with the other tooth (pre-molar on the other side, upper) hasn't been resolved; it's still in the "diagnostics" stage. However, it seems to be related to pressure, rather than heat or cold. It hurts only when I bite onto something like a nut or hard crust of bread.

Thanks for the "good luck" wishes and for the invitation to PM you. Regarding the latter, I prefer to keep the discussion public because I think it is beneficial for everyone who accesses this board.

Thanks to everyone for your input and for your interest.
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Post by gringal on Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:07 pm

Thanks to you, Lehrer, for doing a great job clarifying what happened to you.

I didn't mean to say that a 10 a.m. appointment isn't supposed to happen on time, but that my experiences with docs and dentists both in the states and here is that waiting....and waiting....is often the case, whether it's a good doc or dentist or a poor one. Sorry it happened to you, considering that you live far from town.

Hope your teeth are now chomping away painlessly. Very Happy


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Post by Lehrer on Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:12 pm

raqueteer wrote:I might add that a fractured tooth subsequent to a root canal, could have been caused by failure to put on a crown after the procedure, which is normal practice. Once again we are not totally clear, but, let's ask Lehrer himself. Was the fractured tooth the one with the prior root canal?

I see that I failed to address this query in my previous response. This is exactly what transpired. Dr. Carlos informed me that a crown should be applied after a root canal to a molar in order to prevent exactly what happened. After a year-and-a-half from the date of the root canal, this problem developed. The molar was split in two, top to bottom. He gave me the tooth after extraction and I needed no further proof.

Conclusion: The dentist who performed the root canal (located in Riberas del Pilar, across the highway from Alejandro's Pizza) screwed it up from the outset. He also removed a gold crown from another of my teeth -- and kept the gold. Why? Because the molar behind it was causing pain. This one should be avoided by EVERYONE!!! (Word to the wise.)

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Post by raqueteer on Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:01 pm

Lehrer, good news. It appears that we have indeed hit the nail, or should I say the bicuspid on the head. You may need an occlusal adjustment, and this may have to be repeated several times since the tooth has been compressed and upon the release of pressure, will begin to move yet again. This is a very simple and usually painless procedure.

Clearly from the reading of the x-ray taken by dentist number one, this fellow very likely was snoozing during radiology class.

quote Lehrer.

Dr. Carlos took X-rays for himself and he and Dr. Candy explained to me that an abscess would show up as a dark area on the X-ray -- none were present. I mentioned that Dr. Candy had immediately prescribed an antibiotic (Clendix -- clindamicina) and that I had been taking it for a couple of days already. With the patience of a professional, Dr. Candy explained that a couple of days would not dissipate an abscess -- that it takes days or weeks.

end quote

This is precisely what I was trying to get at. Abscesses are exceptionally simple to detect on an x-ray, and since I am trained to read them, it was patently obvious that something had gone horribly wrong. Dr Candy did exactly the right thing here in prescribing an antibiotic.

The changing of your appointment, while annoying, was not a huge issue given the circumstances, however it is only courteous to inform the patient of such an event so that they can make other plans.

When I stated that 50% of root canals failed, I did not mean to indicate that this would happen immediately, however over an extended period of time, that is generally true.

What really does bother me, as it should bother anyone else reading this, is the absolute failure of anyone to address the issue of pain. Pain is a dental emergency. Having to wait for one month to be seen is inexcusable.

Now, on to the fractured tooth. A hairline crack can be tricky, however a molar split in half should be pretty obvious.

Regarding a P.M. my area of expertise was periodontia, and pain makes me suspicious of another form of abscess, a periodontal abscess, which requires an entirely different form of treatment, and I might add, a different antibiotic. If you have any questions regarding that please feel free to P.M. I specialized in oral microbiology and utilized a non-surgical technique for treatment.


Best of luck


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Post by Lehrer on Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:01 pm

raqueteer wrote:The changing of your appointment, while annoying, was not a huge issue given the circumstances, however it is only courteous to inform the patient of such an event so that they can make other plans.
....
Having to wait for one month to be seen is inexcusable.

Now, on to the fractured tooth. A hairline crack can be tricky, however a molar split in half should be pretty obvious.
I thank you most sincerely for your concern.

I disagree with your conclusion that it was not a "huge issue" under the circumstances; however, I agree that the wait of a month's duration is inexcusable. I could not fathom this lack of concern, and it caused me to wonder if I might be wasting my time with this particular dentist, with whom I had never been involved.

With regard to the change in time of the appointment, in all fairness I have to say that Dr. Barragán's office did try to call me -- but I was in the process of moving from Tizapán to Mismaloya, and they did not succeed in contacting me via telephone. I think they should have made an effort to email me at the very least -- or to have made every effort to keep the appointment. In my estimation, their lack of effort in this regard is unforgivable.

Regarding the split-in-half molar, since the X-rays are taken from the side (and the split was back-to-front) it might have been difficult to detect. However, Dr. Carlos noticed it right away and suggested removal of the filling to enable a physical examination that would show if the split went all the way to the apex. He determined that it did and made the correct decision.

All-in-all, I'm very disappointed with my experiences with Dr. Hoyos, with Dr. Barragán, and with the unnamed dentist in Riberas del Pilar -- but I highly recommend Dr. Candy.
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Post by gringal on Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:28 pm

Geez, Lehrer, when I was a kid, they told me to stay away from candy if I didn't want bad teeth.
lol!

You may be interested to hear that the TOB is continuing the dentalia. Some dogs just can't let go of a bone.
Dead Horse

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Post by Lehrer on Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:55 pm

gringal wrote:Geez, Lehrer, when I was a kid, they told me to stay away from candy if I didn't want bad teeth.
lol!

Considering the fact that "dulce" means "candy" (or "sweet"), I think Dr. Candy is appropriately named. (I did relate that she held my hand, didn't I?) She called me this morning to find out how I was doing: experiencing any pain? I told her that I'm back to normal; ate chili with crackers last night for supper (even though Dr. Carlos advised me to stay away from spicy foods).

I am really impressed with these professionals; I think I'll stay with them.

flag waver cheers
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Post by raqueteer on Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:40 pm

Lehrer wrote:
gringal wrote:Geez, Lehrer, when I was a kid, they told me to stay away from candy if I didn't want bad teeth.
lol!

Considering the fact that "dulce" means "candy" (or "sweet"), I think Dr. Candy is appropriately named. (I did relate that she held my hand, didn't I?) She called me this morning to find out how I was doing: experiencing any pain? I told her that I'm back to normal; ate chili with crackers last night for supper (even though Dr. Carlos advised me to stay away from spicy foods).

I am really impressed with these professionals; I think I'll stay with them.

flag waver cheers

I think I may also go to Dr. Candy if I ever have anything really major to be done. I would also like to relate some news about another good practitioner, who I visited today. Dental Express, Dr. Elena Chavez. After a complete exam, and a panorex, which we both read, it was discovered that I had, as I suspected, no cavities, or any other dental problems. I discussed periodontal treatment with her, and will be giving her a few tips on the microbiology end, she was very interested in my prior expertise developed during my years in practice. Due to previous poorly done cleanings we discovered some subgingival calculus which will be removed as a precautionary move, under anesthetic. We also elected to replace a somewhat dodgy composite resin, which was optional.
Dr. Elena and I had quite a long discussion about periodontal treatment, and we are in complete agreement regarding treatment modalities. I look forward to my next appointment, and she is looking forward to some new information.


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Post by gringal on Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:55 pm

This topic has even leaked over to .........TOB! Great suffering succotash. Can we put it to bed now? Sleep

Lehrer.......I take it back. Having Dulce hold your hand is priceless!
razberry



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Post by Lehrer on Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:57 pm

gringal wrote: This topic has even leaked over to .........TOB! Great suffering succotash. Can we put it to bed now? Sleep

Lehrer.......I take it back. Having Dulce hold your hand is priceless!
razberry


Hey, contrary to my own better judgment I started to "lurk" over there. A rather fascinating discussion, all things considered. Maybe some of those old farts over there will see the advantages offered here by CanuckBob -- if he'll change his image!
lol! lol! lol!
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Post by gringal on Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:38 pm

It was somewhat interesting until it got into personalities. I have a feeling somebody over there doesn't love me. Okey dokey. Such is life. Oh, whaaaaa, snivel and whine. Rolling Eyes

You make a good point about "lurking" over there against your better judgment. Maybe mine will kick in one of these days............but I may still need to find a crock pot or....something.
lol!




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Post by Lehrer on Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:33 pm

gringal wrote:It was somewhat interesting until it got into personalities. I have a feeling somebody over there doesn't love me. Okey dokey. Such is life. Oh, whaaaaa, snivel and whine. Rolling Eyes

You make a good point about "lurking" over there against your better judgment. Maybe mine will kick in one of these days............but I may still need to find a crock pot or....something.
lol!



Surely you aren't referring to M-L? She might have gone a little overboard, but I thought she made some good points during the discussion (mainly because she seems to be on my side).
Dead Horse
As far as finding a crockpot -- hey, I found an electric chainsaw using this board! Why would I need ToB? (It sucks, anyhow.)
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Post by gringal on Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:08 pm

LOL. Easy for you to say "it sucks", bud, since you're on the spit list there. Shocked

And hey, we take support wherever we find it. She's your cousin, right? In my case, I think she's still holding a grudge from when I stole her boyfriend in high school. He turned out badly, though. Caught stealing hubcaps from the sheriff's cruiser. (for the humor-impaired: I'm being duplicitous)

How do you like that electric chain saw? Ours drove us to the stinky gas powered model in a short time.
lol!

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Post by Lehrer on Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:50 pm

Hey, gringal -- I said "finding a crockpot," not "being a crackpot"!!!

What's with this "boyfriend" stuff?
😕

With regard to the chainsaw, it leaves a bit to be desired. But I needed it only for one job, and it was cheaper to buy the thing and do the job myself than it would have been to hire some laborer to do it!!! Well worth the effort. BTW, if you want to buy it and use it as a crockpot, I'll sell it cheap.

lol!
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Post by gringal on Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:14 pm

If I wanted to stir things up rather than saw logs........it would work nicely. Already done my weekly limit on that, though...........so I'll pass. You're right, though: sometimes it's cheaper to buy the beast than hire out.

The stolen boyfriend: What part of "duplicitous" don't you understand, huh? How about "lying in ma teeth"? That mo bettah?
lol!

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Post by Lehrer on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:36 pm

Sorry, gringal....

My field is languages (English, French, German, & [hopefully] Spanish).

I never learned how to use a dictionary to look up words I don't understand (like "duplicitous").

lol! lol! lol!
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Post by gringal on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:55 pm

Well, heck.....it's not a word I'd cotton to, either. Takes way less time to just call me a liar.
....and take the consequences. Heh, heh.

Now behave yo'self. Or enjoy yourself.....in English, French, German, Spanglish....or Italian.
lol!

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Post by Lehrer on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:58 pm

gringal wrote:Well, heck.....it's not a word I'd cotton to, either. Takes way less time to just call me a liar.
....and take the consequences. Heh, heh.

Now behave yo'self. Or enjoy yourself.....in English, French, German, Spanglish....or Italian.
lol!
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