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I was forwarded this 4 minutes ago after I posted about hospitals.

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Post by CanuckBob on Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:11 am

BTW....the last I had surgery for kidney stones at Country 2000 my GP checked on their tally every day and went over the final tab to ensure there was no shenanigans. The final tab was pretty much as estimated up front. I even accidentally overpaid them by $20,000 pesos and the hospital called me and had me come back for a refund.

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Post by brigitte on Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:29 am

We have had 2 surgeries at Country 2000 , two different experiences one good one bad. The first and good one was for a light surgery , the second was for back surgery. The second experience was not so great and we got out early just to get out of there. We ordered an ambulance and told them we were out of there like it or not.. We had to pay before they let us go but the money was not the issue. The issue was the poor care of my husband .. The doctors we used were good , the daily care not so good.
We also had a surgery at del Carmen and the care there was superior.. we have nsurrance and had no problems with the payments.

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Post by gringal on Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:36 am

CanuckBob wrote:BTW....the last I had surgery for kidney stones at Country 2000 my GP checked on their tally every day and went over the final tab to ensure there was no shenanigans. The final tab was pretty much as estimated up front. I even accidentally overpaid them by $20,000 pesos and the hospital called me and had me come back for a refund.

So far, I've heard nothing but good things about that hospital.

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Post by CanuckBob on Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:43 pm

One thing for sure is both the medical and dental costs around here have risen substantially in the past 5 years or so. When I first arrived in 2012 you could get a teeth cleaning at a few different places for around $150 - $200 pesos. The last one I had about 18 months ago was $300 pesos. I went to a little local dentist office up the street today for a teeth cleaning. It's a hole in the wall with fairly old used equipment so I thought "hey the teeth cleaning here must be reasonably priced" and didn't bother to ask the price up front. When it was finished they told me it was $550 pesos. Is that the going rate around here now or did I get "gringoized"??

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Post by MexicoPete on Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:56 pm

I think that is about what Dr Haro charges for a teeth cleaning. I know there are some places where they charge less.
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Post by ferret on Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:28 pm

For the record, last year Dr. Haro's office charged 500 pesos for a cleaning and this year it is 600 pesos... in ultraclean, disinfected offices with ultrasonic equipment.
Why anyone would look for "cheap" when it comes to their health is beyond my understanding.
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Post by Carry Bean on Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:07 pm

Dental Express charged me 200 pesos a couple months ago.

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Post by helohfe on Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:43 pm

Bob is correct about the dentist down the street from him...He started out at $250 pesos then went to $300 and this Dec. he moved it to $550..He Started out at Dental Express years ago and then moved next to Cocin Arte and is an excellent dentist and now his assistant does the cleaning..I am heading back to Dental xpress for semi-annual cleanings..

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Post by CanuckBob on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:43 am

ferret wrote:For the record, last year Dr. Haro's office charged 500 pesos for a cleaning and this year it is 600 pesos... in ultraclean, disinfected offices with ultrasonic equipment.
Why anyone would look for "cheap" when it comes to their health is beyond my understanding.

Yet some people complain about a few of the local doctors charging $750 for an office visit. Go figure ….eh?

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Post by ferret on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:30 am

CanuckBob wrote:cleaning. It's a hole in the wall with fairly old used equipment so I thought "hey the teeth cleaning here must be reasonably priced" and didn't bother to ask the price up front. When it was finished they told me it was $550 pesos. Is that the going rate around here now or did I get "gringoized"??

Everybody's different but you clearly thought that it would be cheaper because it's a "hole in the wall with fairly old used equipment".

Some things are worth the price.
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Post by CanuckBob on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:36 am

Yes, clearly. Seems to be a rip off compared to other higher end facilities with new equipment, etc....no?

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Post by ferret on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:43 am

Yes it does. And I think that's worth complaining about.
It's a similar situation to having been seen by two "opthamologists" here and neither one of them had the proper equipment to test for pressure in the eyes. That's a rip off too that could have long term consequences.
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Post by CanuckBob on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:58 am

My "complaint" will be to go elsewhere. For that money I will find another place with the newest technology.

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Post by lakeside7 on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:18 pm

Trailrunner wrote:Stay outta del Carmen and the rest of those glitzy overpriced hospitals, done. Eat a healthy diet, exercise regularly, get checkups from a good doc who will use the smaller less expensive hospitals, and practice prevention. And keep your fingers crossed. Very Happy

I have a friend who recently had a very successful arthroscopic knee surgery at the Clinica Ibarra in Chapala. Dr. Juan Pablo Lozano is her GP and was in attendance.

This experience has nothing to do with the a fore mentioned hospital....also most government travel web pages warn you to ensure to have (travel) insurance , they are not in the loan/grant business...was their no discussion before hand between the primary doctor and patient as to costs and insurance coverage.......It seems before the advent of "Private Insurance" the process was always to discuss before hand the cost etc...sometime this meant shopping around for different hospitals and surgeons

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Post by lakeside7 on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:24 pm

brigitte wrote:We have had 2 surgeries at Country 2000 , two different experiences one good one bad. The first and good one was for a light surgery , the second was for back surgery. The second experience was not so great and we got out early just to get out of there. We ordered an ambulance and told them we were out of there like it or not.. We had to pay before they let us go but the money was not the issue. The issue was the poor care of my husband .. The doctors we used were good , the daily care not so good.
We also had a surgery at del Carmen and the care there was superior.. we have nsurrance and had no problems with the payments.

An interesting report...the only consistent experience ( be it restaurants, lawyers, doctors, car repairs, ) in Mexico is the inconsistency one experiences

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Post by CanuckBob on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:26 pm

I think what has happened in more than one case is that hospital and the insurance company agreed on the treatment and price and then the hospital changed the price after the treatment was performed. The insurance company refused to pay more so they went after the patient's?

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Post by lakeside7 on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:56 pm

CanuckBob wrote:I think what has happened in more than one case is that hospital and the insurance company agreed on the treatment and price and then the hospital changed the price after the treatment was performed. The insurance company refused to pay more so they went after the patient's?

Bob with respect.... "you think"

In order to attract Medical Tourism hospitals, many hospitals in Mexico (and other countries) seek Quality Accreditation Standards". This process ensures certain quality standards are met.However In order to go down that road... extra costs are involved.

"I think" there are only 3 hospitals in Guadalajara listed as tier 1 that met QAS and their costs etc reflect that attainment.

So often we hear that medical procedures in Mexico are "cheap", "inexpensive" etc etc...costs are relevant....BUT if you do not have that figure/price , the cost is not cheap/inexpensive.
It seems only a few months back locals were starting a GOFUNME for a local resident

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Post by gringal on Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:19 pm

The requesting funds thing has been going on for some time. People with no private health insurance still don't want to go to the IMMS or SP hospitals, so they ask others for money so they can go to a private hospital.
IMO, this is trying to "have it both ways".

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Post by CanuckBob on Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:25 pm

lakeside7 wrote:
CanuckBob wrote:I think what has happened in more than one case is that hospital and the insurance company agreed on the treatment and price and then the hospital changed the price after the treatment was performed. The insurance company refused to pay more so they went after the patient's?

Bob with respect.... "you think"

In order to attract Medical Tourism hospitals,  many hospitals in Mexico (and other countries) seek Quality Accreditation Standards". This process ensures certain quality standards are met.However In order to go down that road... extra costs are involved.

"I think" there are only 3 hospitals in Guadalajara listed as tier 1 that met QAS and their costs etc reflect that attainment.

So often we hear that medical procedures in Mexico are "cheap",  "inexpensive" etc etc...costs are relevant....BUT if you do not have that figure/price , the cost is not cheap/inexpensive.
It seems only a few months back locals were starting a GOFUNME for a local resident

Well here is the story we are talking about so tell me what "you think".


I will tell my story again .I was held hostage for 8 hours by supposedly one of the best hospitals in Guad.I had life saving surgery and upon being released by the Dr. I was told my bill was 2.1 million pesos .It was approx 750000 pesos the day before. My insurance would pay the 750000 , the normal amount for this type surgery ,but no more.I was not allowed to leave , even threatened to call the police if I tried to leave .I was barely able to walk due to my condition and kept throwing up due to withdrawal from drugs.No food , no drink .My wife attempted to negotiate with them to no avail.Was never told what the charges would be , what medications I was given , nothing .This has been going on for 9 months . Legal fees mounting .Hospital has sent people to my home to try to threaten and intimidate us , has called many times on cell and home phone to threaten .A friend , who has since passed away, had the same problem at same hospital and had to max out his credit cards to pay the bill and still had to call a lawyer to get out of the hospital since he couldn't the full amount .Have since discovered several other expats in same situation.U.S. Consulate could care less , said it wasn't their problem. This is not the only hospital doing this. They are breaking the law and don't care .They have big time lawyers .BEWARE.

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Post by Problem Child on Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:00 pm

I keep reading all these stories about people not being allowed to leave a hospital until the bill is paid. I have yet to read one on what stopped the person from leaving.

Spencer and I have both posted the clear law that you can not be denied the right to leave a hospital because the bill wasn't paid or someone signed for it.

Is someone going to physically stop you from going out? Lock you into the room?

I think everyone should have a copy of the law with them that says the patient can't be held hostage. And stapled to that should be Spencr's card, or the card/phone number of a civil attorney who does more than simply have a staff that fills out forms; an attorney who is actually a litigator hand has some balls (just and expression, not meaning to bbe sexist, it can in context, apply to male or female).

You might even have the phone # of the American/Canadian consulate. They might help because if you are being detained against your will, it is no longer a civil matter, IMO.

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Post by Trailrunner on Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:25 pm

Did you read the fine print on the admitting form that you signed?
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Post by Problem Child on Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:50 pm

Trailrunner wrote:Did you read the fine print on the admitting form that you signed?

I don't know who the "you" is you're referring to, however I do not believe a contract, even in Mexico, could contain a provision where one waives their right to freedom.

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Post by lakeside7 on Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:09 pm

Problem Child wrote:I keep reading all these stories about people not being allowed to leave a hospital until the bill is paid. I have yet to read one on what stopped the person from leaving.

Spencer and I have both posted the clear law that you can not be denied the right to leave a hospital because the bill wasn't paid or someone signed for it.

Is someone going to physically stop you from going out? Lock you into the room?

I think everyone should have a copy of the law with them that says the patient can't be held hostage. And stapled to that should be Spencr's card, or the card/phone number of a civil attorney who does more than simply have a staff that fills out forms; an attorney who is actually a litigator hand has some balls (just and expression, not meaning to bbe sexist, it can in context, apply to male or female).

You might even have the phone # of the American/Canadian consulate. They might help because if you are being detained against your will, it is no longer a civil matter, IMO.


Given the state of anyone recuperating from surgery, and not wanting a confrontation, I guess the "can not" leave issue..... can be traumatic and can only add to your confusion and discomfort.
Maybe?? the hospital is not restricting you leaving, but are "only" asking you or your representative to settle a bill for services legally performed.
If there is a pattern of misrepresentation of cost, by this or other hospitals, it is a very sad and disgusting..... maybe we should start a new file where medical experiences can be shared, not only in private hospitals ,lets include IMSS and SP
I see some parallels here with the situations when the Transitos stop you and for some excuse or little infraction, threaten to tow the car...and will

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Post by RVGRINGO on Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:03 am

Some years ago, I was held over a weekend, in Hospital America-Mexico in Guadalajara. I had BCBS Blue, but their offices in Chicago were closed for the weekend, and even though 'arrangements for insurance' had been made, I was held. They have a guard, and will not let you out. They also have a guard at their parking lot. I did refuse to pay for anything over the weekend, and did not. Late Monday, they go final approval from BCBS, and let us go.

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Post by Problem Child on Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:47 am

If it were me, and depending on my physical condition, I would walk around the guard. I seriously question if the hospital would use physical force to retain you.  It is scary though.

The other side would be to lay in bed and then when things calmed down, simply figure a way to speak out. You see this in movies all the time. Someone comes to visit and they change cloths with the patient and the patient just walks out (with a hat). Maybe not even give notice.

Still, as I say, it does sound like it could be scary. I think they use intimidation more than anything else.

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Post by RVGRINGO on Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:52 am

Sure you would; right after they tinkered with your heart and you still need a wheel chair to go more than a few steps! Dream on child.

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