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Post by espíritu del lago on Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:07 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eGvSnJR1Rk&feature=player_embedded

Or an urban legend? Suspect

If it is, why the up roar over Arizona?
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Post by Rolly on Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:28 pm

Yes, it's true. BUT the two issues are not the same. México is trying to control it's border. What AZ is doing is not border control, it's control of people already in the state -- illegal and legal. It requires CITIZENS and legal residents to show proof of citizenship or legal residency at the whim of a cop. Those who don't have papers with them can be taken to jail.

"But, officer, I was just walking one block to 7/11 to get milk for my baby."

"Tough shitsky, lady, you look illegal to me, so you're going to jail. I don't give a damn that you say you can't even speak Spanish. You're brown. That's enough for me!"
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Post by Bud on Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:30 pm

The Mexican Federal Government is opposed to immigration control laws in the US because money sent back to Mexico from the US by both legal and illegal Mexican workers comprises a significant part of Mexico's GDP.

The last figures I saw were from BEFORE the global economic recession, so the figure is almost certainly less now than it was then, but at that time the figure made up the third or fourth largest segment of Mexican GDP. Impossible to say for sure, since nobody knows exactly how many illegal workers there are in the US.

As for "Chipping" people from Guatemala and Belize, well--who's next? You people at Lakeside? All legal Mexican Citizens and resident foreigners? Turistas? Ain't gummint (any gummint) wonderful?

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Post by itsme on Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:18 am

Perhaps the US should do as the european countries, ( and probably most other countries of the world), and require everyone to carry government ids. Then nobody could claim there is any kind of bias. Sure, there has to be a cost for safety, but this would be a small one. I know many people will start screaming about civil liberties, etc., but if it keeps you and your family safe?

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Post by Intercasa on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:34 am

People in Arizona have said that the illegals and their crime have spilled over and it is out of control. Law enforcement needs tools to combat crime. Some cities are sanctuary cities where the police cannot deport the bad guys and they keep being arrested. Hopefully the police in Arizona will be smart and use the law to get rid of the bad guys and troublemakers and not the good people as it wouldn't be a good use of their time. People will be upset and many don't want to see the bad in their families. Behave, be respectful of the laws and customs and remain and if not then don't cry when you get the boot.
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Post by Carry Bean on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:56 am

Amen, Spencer. I have a friend in a border area of AZ & it's a mess.

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Post by espíritu del lago on Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:02 am

Here is the actual text of SB 1070,if you want to peruse it.

E. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP
21 ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE
22 SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND
23 THIS SECTION.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

This is where it get's dicey:
What is reasonable suspicion?


If I have Reasonable Suspicion that a crime has or is about to occur, and reasonably believe that a person may have information about this, I can detain them for a short period of time to investigate the matter. As part of my investigation, I can conduct a pat down for weapons (if I reasonably believe that they may be present) and seek information to determine exactly what is, has, or will happen. The timeframe can vary a bit due to each set of circumstances, but 20 minutes or so has been ruled to be a reasonable timeframe for detaining someone.

If I have Probable Cause to believe a specific person has committed a crime, I can arrest that person. At that point, I can conduct a complete search of their person for weapons, evidence, and contraband, as well as their vehcile if they are or have been near it recently. I can remove them from the scene and hold them (in jail) for 24 hours or until I get a warrant issued for the charges.

If anyone resists an arrest or detention, I am authorized to use force to apprehend them (in addition, resisting an arrest or detention is a crime, so resisting immediately gives me probable cause to make an arrest).

http://www.realpolice.net/forums/ask-cop-112/81879-detained-vs-arrested.html
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Post by joelpb on Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:27 am

For those of you who live in Mexico answer me this. If you are stopped by a policeman asked to see you papers are you upset or do you get mad? Do you know that all mexicans have to have a national id card? That they can be pull over or stopped at any time and be asked for their papers. Do live in and area where there are bad people going through your yard or breaking into your house? Do you have people murdered by illegals or dogs or livestock? Az is in bad shape the feds will do nothing so we here in AZ. must for our selves.

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Post by Demonio on Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:43 am

[quote="joelpb"]For those of you who live in Mexico answer me this. If you are stopped by a policeman asked to see you papers are you upset or do you get mad? Do you know that all mexicans have to have a national id card? That they can be pull over or stopped at any time and be asked for their papers. Do live in and area where there are bad people going through your yard or breaking into your house? Do you have people murdered by illegals or dogs or livestock? Az is in bad shape the feds will do nothing so we here in AZ.

Sleep
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Post by martygraw on Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:52 pm

joelpb wrote:For those of you who live in Mexico answer me this. If you are stopped by a policeman asked to see you papers are you upset or do you get mad? Do you know that all mexicans have to have a national id card? That they can be pull over or stopped at any time and be asked for their papers. Do live in and area where there are bad people going through your yard or breaking into your house? Do you have people murdered by illegals or dogs or livestock? Az is in bad shape the feds will do nothing so we here in AZ. must for our selves.

What a pile of crap. This law was enacted by the lady gov and all of the other neo-cons, because if they haden't, they prob would not be reelected in the upcoming Nov. elections. What about the great Macain, he should be renamed FLIP-FLOP. Racial profiling pure and simple.
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Post by Solovino on Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:24 pm

joelpb wrote:For those of you who live in Mexico answer me this. If you are stopped by a policeman asked to see you papers are you upset or do you get mad? Do you know that all mexicans have to have a national id card? That they can be pull over or stopped at any time and be asked for their papers. Do live in and area where there are bad people going through your yard or breaking into your house? Do you have people murdered by illegals or dogs or livestock? Az is in bad shape the feds will do nothing so we here in AZ. must for our selves.

You are truly stupid. I have Mexican citizenship. I don't carry anything that proves that. There is no national ID card.

Now go away, moron.

To the other board members I apologize for being rude but the mod should put this kind of bullshit in the Octagon to begin with.

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Post by Solovino on Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:29 pm

Rolly wrote:Yes, it's true.

Ya got a cite for that little gem?

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Post by Rolly on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:16 pm

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Post by cane on Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:01 pm

"major human rights crisis"

Mexico accused over migrant abuse
Migrants in Mexico are facing a "major human rights crisis" as the authorities fail to tackle widespread abuses, Amnesty International has warned.

The human rights group said officials ignored or even played a part in the rape, kidnap, and murder of migrants, often carried out by criminal gangs.

Tens of thousands of Central American migrants pass through Mexico every year to try to reach the US and find work.

Mexico has often stated its commitment to the protection of migrants.

Amnesty called on Mexico's government to "prevent, punish and remedy abuses".

"Migrants in Mexico are facing a major human rights crisis leaving them with virtually no access to justice, fearing reprisals and deportation if they complain of abuses," said Rupert Knox, who contributed to the report, Invisible Victims: Migrants on the Move.

"Persistent failure by the authorities to tackle abuses carried out against irregular migrants has made their journey through Mexico one of the most dangerous in the world," he added.

Amnesty's report may not come as a surprise to those who have made or tried to make the difficult journey through Mexico, the BBC's Julian Miglierini reports from Mexico City.

But its release comes just after the Mexican government denounced a new tough immigration law in Arizona as a human rights violation.

Many here think that, when it comes to migration issues, Mexico first has to clean up its own act, our correspondent says.

Sexual violence

Amnesty cited statistics from the Mexican National Human Rights Commission, which showed that nearly 10,000 migrants had been abducted, mainly for ransom, over a period of six months in 2009.

It said that almost half of those interviewed said public officials had played a direct role in their kidnap.

The report also said that an estimated six out of 10 migrant women and girls have experienced sexual violence at the hands of criminals, other migrants or corrupt public officials.

Amnesty has called on the Mexican authorities to set up a federal task force to protect migrants' rights, and to bring those responsible for abuses to justice.

Grupo Beta, a government initiative started in 1991, operates in northern and southern border states, offering advice and humanitarian aid to migrants.

However, it lacks the necessary funding and authority to adequately support the constant stream of migrants heading north, according to Amnesty.

The majority of migrants are from the Central American countries of El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua

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Post by Demonio on Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:01 pm

Rolly, I'm ashamed of you. The fact is that the chips will be embedded in ID cards and not biologically implanted, as was incorrectly reported by CNN's Lou Dobbs. A web search will provide several independent news sources confirming that the plan involves chipped cards. Do the new FM3 cards to be issued beginning May 1st ring a bell? I expect trash like this from that idiot Dobbs, but for you to restated it here as fact is irresponsible and not like you.

G

Mexico is going high tech to better track the movements of Central Americans who regularly cross the southern border to work or visit.

Starting in May, the National Immigration Institute will distribute cards containing electronic chips.

Those items will record every arrival and departure of so-called temporary workers and visitors, mostly from Guatemala.

The cards will replace a non-electronic pass formerly given to area residents.

Officials say the purpose is to guarantee security for workers and visitors.

Statistics from the institute show that more than 182,000 undocumented migrants were detained in Mexico in 2006. Most were Central Americans from Guatemala,

Honduras and El Salvador en route to the U.S.


Associated Press
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Post by Rolly on Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:19 pm

I'll admit that the CNN report is a bit incomplete, but I don't hear were she says the chip will be implanted in people. The link I posted is more clear on the subject.
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Post by sparks on Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:27 pm

The “papers please” law isn’t even in force yet, but it’s already being used against U.S. citizens (and, in this case, citizens by birth!):
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Post by Rolly on Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:08 pm

Yep. It's gonna get a lot worse.
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Post by CanuckBob on Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:15 pm

Well just come on up to Canada then. We don't care who's here...

In fact when they do get here we allow them to force their customs and beliefs upon us (I.E. Turbans allowed for RCMP Officers).

I like Australia's take on immigrants....they say either conform or get the f$$k out.

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Post by itsme on Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:25 pm

CanuckBob wrote:Well just come on up to Canada then. We don't care who's here...

In fact when they do get here we allow them to force their customs and beliefs upon us (I.E. Turbans allowed for RCMP Officers).

I like Australia's take on immigrants....they say either conform or get the f$$k out.

Bob
Hah, hah, hah, and amen to that! bounce

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Post by Demonio on Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:40 pm

Rolly wrote:I'll admit that the CNN report is a bit incomplete, but I don't hear were she says the chip will be implanted in people. The link I posted is more clear on the subject.
Rolly, I respect you and your many contributions to these boards and to Mexico, please don't disrespect us now. Many here trust you. Step up!
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Post by oncesubtle on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:07 pm

Very Happy After all your help over the years Rolly, ya don't need to step up for my respect. Very Happy
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Post by Demonio on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:36 pm

Rolly, from now on (on this topic) I'll keep this private and between us.

G
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Post by Rolly on Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:19 pm

I sent you a PM.
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Post by joelpb on Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:30 pm

Today at 07:46 PM #4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mexican law says that a person traveling needs to have there Instituto federal electoral registro federal de electores card with them at all times...A driver lic., is not ID in Mexico...A Mexican needs the address changed as soon or before going to work in a different state...

Mexicans can not just leave and go to a different State with out making a report of it...This is not ...Maybe we can or do it later...later is after you get out of jail...Not like in the USA...

I do...be leave this new law in AZ., is headed for Americans to have paper work ..."Some Fed., type of ID...to show the police of the Country who you are...and the chip is here , also being used ...Like it or not...it,s coming to the USA...Larry...
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