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Paris Terriost Attack

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Post by Clete on Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:28 pm

itsme wrote:Interestingly, this has gotten POTUS to fiinally say "terrorist", although he called it a "tragedy" when it was a terrible atrocity.

Oh, please. The act was an atrocity, evil, barbaric. The result IS a tragedy. Do you really need to inject that type of asinine commentary?

I abhor violence. Especially terrorist violence. More so when innocent people are the victims. Where was the outcry over all of the innocent Iraqis that died in the illegal invasion? People selectively choose what to be outraged over. In this case the victims were from a place considered civilized. Our ally and friend France. The recent bombings in Turkey didn't get even 10% of the coverage even though the death toll was nearly the same. Where were "we stand with our fellow humans in Turkey" proclamations? When we are equally outraged over the deaths of all human beings, when we value all humans equally, maybe this kind of shit will stop.

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Post by slainte39 on Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:30 pm

itsme wrote:Interestingly, this has gotten POTUS to fiinally say "terrorist", although he called it a "tragedy" when it was a terrible atrocity.


So this is what it took?
 I don't think you know very much about what Obama says in a 24 hour day to all he comes in contact with and are just baiting for an argument.  Parsing what the President says between tragedy and atrocity in a demeaning way, says you are just making a political statement.
I would bet he is just as concerned or more than you are.

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Post by slainte39 on Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:34 pm

Jeeezes Clete
We must have woke up at the same time.  I'm trying to get my post in and had to wait for you.

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Post by CanuckBob on Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:23 am

viajero wrote:
CanuckBob wrote:IMO.....the only one's who can stop terrorist groups like ISIS or Al Qaeda are the Muslim people themselves and quite frankly the rest of the world needs to apply the appropriate pressure to get them to do so.
I'd bet that the decent Muslims in France are mortified.

And all the decent Muslims around the world need to rise up and stop these whack jobs within their midst.
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Post by espíritu del lago on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:09 am

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Post by diamondtuffy on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:11 am

Ain't gonna happen, they're as intimidated as many others and I'd bet deep in their soul they'd love to see a muslim world, not necessarily a violent one, but it's a 1.200 year old scab they're picking at.

One thing I'll say and that's the Arabic world is smart enough not to import the destruction Paris just witnessed. But of course the US wants more, bring them in, we only have 94M people not working, what's a few hundred thousand more. Or, are the refugees highly skilled workers that will immediately assimilate into the workforce?

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Post by espíritu del lago on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:13 am

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Post by espíritu del lago on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:32 am

I'm willing to bet after a couple more massive terrorist attacks which kill and mame Americans and Canadians people will call for war.
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Post by diamondtuffy on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:36 am

The western world refuses to accept the massive difference between us and the muslim world and that is primarily that we separate religion and government in large part, in the muslim world, they are the same, their religion is their government. For the uneducated masses the simple line of logic says that the western world must be converted or destroyed - period. If they destroy the western world and replace it with a one gov one religion muslim system then everything will be good. And to the uneducated that is easy to understand, so either we accept this is a holy war, or start reading the Koran.

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Post by gringal on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:55 am

diamondtuffy wrote:The western world refuses to accept the massive difference between us and the muslim world and that is primarily that we separate religion and government in large part, in the muslim world, they are the same, their religion is their government. For the uneducated masses the simple line of logic says that the western world must be converted or destroyed - period. If they destroy the western world and replace it with a one gov one religion muslim system then everything will be good. And to the uneducated that is easy to understand, so either we accept this is a holy war, or start reading the Koran.

I don't know about the logic of assuming that the the uneducated masses of the Muslim world want to convert the rest or destroy them. It's been a long time since the Crusades, when the Christian world attempted much the same thing. We know how that worked out.

Until recently, everybody seemed to be more or less content to mind their own religious business around the globe. Then, the Western world started messing around in the Middle East and here we are, up to our ears in wars and terrorism in the last decade. What happened? Ask the Hawks. And of course, Follow the Money. Also, the oil.



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Post by espíritu del lago on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:11 am

Do honestly believe if we pulled out every troop, never used another drop of oil and never helped another country monetarily to fight radical Islam that would stop terrisom and there would never be another terriost attack on American soil or there would be no more Americans killed ?

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Post by gringal on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:24 am

espíritu del lago wrote:Do honestly believe if we pulled out every troop, never used another drop of oil and never helped another country monetarily  to fight radical Islam that would stop terrisom and there would never be another terriost attack on American soil or there would be no more Americans killed ?


Of course not. You can't erase history, so we are stuck with the results of our previous actions.
What do you suppose the current situation might have been, had we never taken those actions? Easy to speculate, one way or the other, but we can't change history. Or, as a famous Arab poet said: "The moving finger writes, and having writ, moves on. All thy piety and wit can't lure it back to change a single line, nor all thy tears rub out a word of it". Savvy fellow, that Omar.

There are any number of troubles in the world which can be directly traced to unwise or evil deeds of the past. How about slavery, for one? Colonialism, for another.

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Post by espíritu del lago on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:38 am

Let's say that Islam is the only religion on Earth .

What happens when Islamic belief no longer serves a purpose. Is it safe to assume when the dominant religion fails to meet the needs of all the people in the dominant religion of Islam, that a new religion will come out of their need for a new desire of their beliefs to be persued?
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Post by slainte39 on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:51 am

Fundamental Islam seems to be misogynistic of women's rights and equality.  Can't understand why half the population (the women) of Islamic countries adhere to those beliefs.
Does the Koran espouse this or where does it come from?  I can't imagine women in Christian dominated countries ever accepting this treatment.

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Post by espíritu del lago on Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:05 am

When in Rome do as the Romans. If Islam is the new religion observe it or die.
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Post by gringal on Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:07 am

slainte39 wrote:Fundamental Islam seems to be misogynistic of women's rights and equality.  Can't understand why half the population (the women) of Islamic countries adhere to those beliefs.
Does the Koran espouse this or where does it come from?  I can't imagine women in Christian dominated countries ever accepting this treatment.

How about some of those extreme "Christian" cults that demand obedience on the part of wives to their husbands and having a ridiculous number of children to keep the "quiver" full? Duggars, anyone? Then, there are the Mormons and a few others, where the women willingly go for a subservient role. Why? Haven't a clue, but it happens.

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Post by espíritu del lago on Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:08 am

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Post by Lady Otter Latté on Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:11 am

I could not have said it better than this blogger.

http://squatlo-rant.blogspot.mx/2015/11/take-your-gods.html
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Post by espíritu del lago on Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:20 am

To me it seems like everyone wants to do exactly what they want and they don't won't any laws, any rules or any form of religion or government.

Maybe we should all just do whatever we want without consequences.

How long do you think we would last as a civilization?

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Post by Lady Otter Latté on Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:55 am

espíritu del lago wrote:To me it seems like everyone wants to do exactly what they want and they don't won't any laws, any rules or any form of religion or government.

Maybe we should all just do whatever we want without consequences.

How long do you think we would last as a civilization?


Straw man argument. Makes no sense at all. Who said they do not want any laws, any rules or any form of government? Who said they want to do whatever they want without consequences? It takes a special mind to go from a legitimate criticism of religious belief to what you just wrote.
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Post by viajero on Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:04 am

slainte39 wrote:Fundamental Islam seems to be misogynistic of women's rights and equality.
Machismo?

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Post by gringal on Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:34 am

espíritu del lago wrote:To me it seems like everyone wants to do exactly what they want and they don't won't any laws, any rules or any form of religion or government.

Maybe we should all just do whatever we want without consequences.

How long do you think we would last as a civilization?

This is happening in some places, and civilization has gone amok. How about the countries whose rulers practice genocide; who turn children into killers? How about the U.S. when slavery was practiced? It took a bloody civil war to "civilize" the country.

Most religions exhibit a level of hypocrisy that renders their rules meaningless. Check out pedophile preachers.
There are good reasons to behave ethically without being threatened with hell or promised a heaven.  Most philosophers have outlined them.  Aristotle, for a start.
In most governments, lawbreakers are punished in the present life and that, for the most part, is a sufficient deterrent to keep society more or less civilized. More or less.

You usually needn't wait long for "consequences" to kick in, with or without religion or law. Look around us.


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Post by espíritu del lago on Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:44 am

Lady Otter Latté wrote:
espíritu del lago wrote:To me it seems like everyone wants to do exactly what they want and they don't won't any laws, any rules or any form of religion or government.

Maybe we should all just do whatever we want without consequences.

How long do you think we would last as a civilization?



Straw man argument. Makes no sense at all. Who said they do not want any laws, any rules or any form of government? Who said they want to do whatever they want without consequences? It takes a special mind to go from a legitimate criticism of religious belief to what you just wrote.

Rules religion and government,

Isn't that what causes the divide between all mankind?

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Post by gringal on Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:57 am

Rules, religion and government: it's a matter of making choices which make you feel like you're in the right. That makes other choices wrong. To create a "better" society, you want everyone to make your choices. .....and finally, you persecute them if they fail to see the light.
There's the history of mankind.
A "live and let live" attitude is almost impossible for most people.

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Post by slainte39 on Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:59 am

viajero wrote:
slainte39 wrote:Fundamental Islam seems to be misogynistic of women's rights and equality.
Machismo?

Machismo, yes, but Mexico is like an Amazon colony compared to some Muslim societies.

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Post by RVGRINGO on Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:02 pm

It has always been that way, but the big change is in the convenience of modern communications, weapons and plastic explosives available to the general public. Maybe the plug will be pulled. Who knows?

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