Burglaries

brigitte wrote:Ecept for the man who was gun down  coming back from grocery shipping a blaock or two from your house,,,no problems, until It happens to you  I guess.

I used to walk all over this town even at night but no more.

I read about that tragedy, but I recall that the way it happened, his garage door was open; they demanded whatever and instead of handing it over, he decided to fight the guys with the gun.  Never a good idea.  That doesn't mean they wouldn't have shot him anyway.  Generally speaking, murders are rare among ordinary citizens.  Drug related crimes are another matter.  Best to avoid people providing the illegal stuff.

I'm sure any area in  the US and probably Canada too, that has the population (a 100,000 + or -) of the North Shore of Chapala, has burglaries every day/night of the year, if you were to check the police reports or read the local newspaper front to back.
Here, because many of the residents have lived somewhere else, there seems to be a lower thresh hold of concern for these crimes, as maybe many of the expats still have a little of "the walking on eggshells confidence" about living here and the unfamiliarity of a different place, people, and culture where they were born, raised, and lived most of their lives. Also, most are older people and not in the same physical condition they were in, when they were in theirs 20's or 30's. This all adds to their level of concern about this issue that probably exceeds their level of concern if they were back in their original stomping grounds.
I doubt burglaries have the same exposure on boards like these in areas of the US and Canada that are of a similar size or location (proximity to a large metropolitan area) as they get on this board.

Always be conscious and aware of what's happening on your street, neighborhood, or area, but don't let it become an obsession.
Why I even know someone who had their house broken into in a rural area, near a small town in Nebraska, USA, while they were visiting friends and family here in Chapala.

"Always be conscious and aware of what's happening on your street, neighborhood, or area, but don't let it become an obsession." Slainte

Worth repeating.

CanuckBob wrote:

slainte39 wrote:I'm sure any area in  the US and probably Canada too, that has the population (a 100,000 + or -) of the North Shore of Chapala, has burglaries every day/night of the year, if you were to check the police reports or read the local newspaper front to back.
Here, because many of the residents have lived somewhere else, there seems to be a lower thresh hold of concern for these crimes, as maybe many of the expats still have a little of "the walking on eggshells confidence" about living here and the unfamiliarity of a different place, people, and culture where they were born, raised, and lived most of their lives. Also, most are older people and not in the same physical condition they were in, when they were in theirs 20's or 30's. This all adds to their level of concern about this issue that probably exceeds their level of concern if they were back in their original stomping grounds.
I doubt burglaries have the same exposure on boards like these in areas of the US and Canada that are of a similar size or location (proximity to a large metropolitan area) as they get on this board.

Always be conscious and aware of what's happening on your street, neighborhood, or area, but don't let it become an obsession.
Why I even know someone who had their house broken into in a rural area, near a small town in Nebraska, USA, while they were visiting friends and family here in Chapala.

I think you are bang on. It also seems many people have a lot of time on their hands so they occupy themselves reading every crime report and rags like Borderland beat. I never followed the petty crime back in Canada and don't here either unless it is posted on this forum or I am chatting with the neighbors.

Agreed

borderland beat does not resort to "petty" crime stories. but it is totally about crime and the politics thereof, unlike a general newspaper.

The man who was shot did no fight the robber. He had his wallet pulled out of his back pocket. Then he turned around fast and said "give that back". Unfortunarly he got shot. It happend very fast. They had just drove in from shopping and had not closed the garage door. He did nothing wrong. There have been other incidents near that street. You cannot live in paranoia. Things do happen and it is not always the fault of the victim.

No, it's never right to blame the victim, it sometimes makes sense to point out in retrospect what the victim(s) could have done that might have prevented or at least minimized the problems.

"You want it -- take it." "I'll help you carry it out." Other than my two little ones, nothing is worth putting your body/life on the line.

Common sense will usually go a long way in preventing problems.

mexicobear wrote: The man who was shot did no fight the robber. He had his wallet pulled out of his back pocket. Then he turned around fast and said "give that back". Unfortunarly he got shot. It happend very fast. They had just drove in from shopping and had not closed the garage door. He did nothing wrong. There have been other incidents near that street. You cannot live in paranoia. Things do happen and it is not always the fault of the victim.

Since I wasn't there, I won't dispute what you said. I'm just going by what I heard. It very seldom is the fault of the victim. The attacker bears the responsibility.

gringal, I have heard similar things. I did speak with his son, it was a matter of seconds. He had no time to even say a word, or choose his words. In this case there is nothing he could have done. It was a reaction to say "give it to me". The attacker could have fled. I have lived near that corner. Many times I have used a taxi to take me home with my groceries. They did not go into a driveway, but left me off near the sidewalk. I would never expect someone to creep up behind me. If they did, I may scream. There have been incidents where the victim did fight for the wallet and got hurt.

I can vouch for the fact that, in such a situation, one isn't always in control of one's actions, at least, not in a logical manner. I was mugged in Managua, Nicaragua, several years ago while on a medical aide mission. Our group was walking along a road en route to dinner at a restaurant, not aware we were passing one of the most notoriously dangerous barrios in the city. We were not being aware of our surroundings, and myself and another woman were at the rear, talking.

Suddenly, we were jumped by two youth who grabbed our bags from around our necks and ran. Although my day bag contained only a bottle of water and my Spanish dictionary, they were mine, damnit! and no one was going to take them. I never stopped to rationalize, I just held on to my bag as the punk dragged me down a sloped towards a bridge crossing a sewage-filled ditch. As I was dragged down a concrete staircase, one of the younger guys in our group appeared out of nowhere and leapt at the attacker, who finally let go.

I was scuffed up but alive. Was that the smart thing to do? Of course not, but it was my instinctual reaction to someone trying to take something they had no right to. I guess logic and reason have little to do with it. I thank my Guardian Angel for paying attention when I was not!

Speaking of reactions.

I once heard someone say (actually it was about women) that it is more dangerous for most honest people to have a gun than not.

The reasoning was that an honest person will by nature hesitate or so considering if they want to use deadly force; what might their criminal liability be, etc. The bad guy will use this pause to take the gun, ". . . shove it up your butt and blow your brains out."

Just a randomly passed recollection but I think there is merit to it. And "yes," acting too quickly or overreacting can also have consequences.

I wonder what the law is on the use of deadly force in self-protection or the protection of others.

With burglaries and home invasions on the rise and the intruders being armed and some killing people found at home, here are some tips to make your being a victim more pleasant and not find yourself in jail next to the people who broke in. The following is purely legal and you should also ponder on the emotional ramifications of killing another human being as well as if you hesitate and then they turn your weapon on you.

If you are going to shoot someone please make sure that your weapon is not a caliber that is for exclusive use of the police and military. Permitted calibers are .22, .25, .32, .380 and .38 special, not +P or Super. You can also whack them with a shotgun, I dont recall if slugs are legal so stick to buck shot or #7, 8 or 9 pellets. A rifle is fine but no assault weapons.

Prohibited calibers include but are not limited to such as .38 +P, .38 Super, .9mm, 10mm, .40 cal, .44 magnum, .357 magnum, .45 auto.

Make sure that your pistol is registered with the military. We can help you do this. It will ensure you get your gun back and you are legally able to buy ammo, there is an ammo store 1 block from my Guadalajara office so after registration you can stock up for a rainy day or when the local unemployment rate rises.

Be aware of the State Penal Code and the presumptions for self (legitimate) defense. Article 13 II (e) details this, to paraphrase you may use force to protect another or property when repelling a present aggression that is real, violent, legitimate and imminent.

The exclusion from responsibility does not apply if you provoked the aggression or if you were able to avoid it by other means.

There is a presumption of legitimate defense whoever repels and harms an intruder who scaled walls or who forced entry into a home or apartment or interior areas and that there exists a evident presumption of committing an aggression or crime. The same presumption favors one who harms an intruder found in their room or that of their family or one of whom they have an obligation to protect or where their or anothers property they are protecting whenever the presence of the intruder happens with circumstances that reveal the possibility of an aggression by the intruder.

In the event the person use excessive force, the penalty is from 3 days to 8 years of prison.

Original Spanish version
e) La legítima defensa de la persona, honor, derechos o bienes del activo; así como de la persona, honor, derechos o bienes de otro; entendiéndose que se encuentra en tal hipótesis quien rechace una agresión actual, real, violenta e ilegítima que genere un peligro inminente.

No operará tal excluyente, si el activo provocó la agresión o la previó o pudo evitarla fácilmente por otros medios.

Operará parcialmente dicha excluyente, si no hubo necesidad racional del medio empleado en la defensa o si el daño que iba a causar el agresor era fácilmente reparable por otro medio o era notoriamente de poca importancia, comparado con el que causó la defensa.

Se presumirá que actúa en legítima defensa quien rechace y dañe a un intruso que realice un escalamiento o fractura de las cercas, paredes o entradas de su casa o departamento habitado o de sus dependencias interiores, y que exista la presunción evidente de cometer una agresión o la comisión de un delito. La misma presunción favorecerá al que dañe a un intruso que encontrare en la habitación propia o familiar, o de aquella persona a quien tenga obligación de defender, o en lugar donde se encuentren sus bienes propios o ajenos que deba cuidar, siempre que la presencia del extraño ocurra en circunstancias que revelen la posibilidad de una agresión por el intruso. El Ministerio Público en la averiguación previa, resolverá de oficio si opera o no la legítima defensa.

En el caso de exceso en la legítima defensa que se menciona en este artículo, se aplicará al infractor la pena de tres días a ocho años de prisión.

Intercasa wrote:

Make sure that your pistol is registered with the military.  We can help you do this.  It will ensure you get your gun back and you are legally able to buy ammo, there is an ammo store 1 block from my Guadalajara office so after registration you can stock up for a rainy day or when the local unemployment rate rises.


In the event the person use excessive force, the penalty is from 3 days to 8 years of prison.  

"Stock up for a rainy day or when the local unemployment rate rises"?..seriously??
Three days to 8 years?I guess that gives the judge some leeway when it comes to sentencing,hint hint.
Just last week a judge in Jalisco got fired for sentencing a guy who beat his infant daughter to death to three days in jail,Que pinche juez tan pendejo...

I know, I shouldnt quit my day job and be a comedian. I used to buy bulk ammo but I also worked at a gun club and shot every weekend, would buy thousands of rounds at a time.

Intercasa wrote:I know, I shouldnt quit my day job and be a comedian.  I used to buy bulk ammo but I also worked at a gun club and shot everybody weekend, would buy thousands of rounds at a time.  

You "shot everybody"?
I used to go through thousands of rounds too,I miss plinking.
How about that judge,you must have heard about that case,it's been in local news.

Dang autocorrect, didnt notice, my cell phone does the weirdest things with some words and phrases.  I am not a mass murderer, I promise, scout´s honor (I really was a boy scout).

Yes heard they removed the judge from his position, he was either super incompetent or was on the take, which is more likely.

Besides the caliber restrictions, the use of a gun to protect oneself and family are really no different than in California or most of the USA.

How does someone apply for a CCW in Mexico?

Who would that be (that wasn't incompetent or on the take) and that had the power to "remove" the judge??? I thought judges in this country were Teflon.

CCW can be tough as you need to be police or have friends in high places.

The judicial council removed the judge, here is the story from the facebook page of the state supreme court

El Consejo de la Judicatura destituyó de su cargo al titular del Juzgado Mixto de Primera Instancia de Colotlán, Félix Enrique Aguiar Sánchez, luego de que éste actuara de manera irregular al dictar una sentencia contradictoria y desapegada a las reglas básicas que establece la ley penal.

Al destituido se le encontró responsabilidad administrativa por actuar con “un notorio descuido en el desempeño de las funciones que debía realizar”, cuando al momento de dictar sentencia contra Lauro Meza Victorio por el delito de parricidio, encuadró el delito como uno culposo, lo que deviene en un “absurdo jurídico” al tratarse de un delito que no prevé la ley, debido a que el parricidio se comete exclusivamente a través de una conducta dolosa.

En los últimos dos años han sido destituidos de sus cargos hasta ocho jueces, principalmente por faltas u omisiones en el dictado de las sentencias, según los registros del Consejo de la Judicatura.

There's a story in the GDL Reporter this weekend about the Chapala police apprehending a guy who has apparently been on a burglary rampage there. Maybe this is the source of the problem of multiple burglaries very recently there.

The guy they caught was armed with a pistol and other weapons, but from what I have been told there are at least 2 to 3 other burglars / groups still operating in the area.

Wow. Thanks Spencer!

Story on page 16 of "La Pagina"

http://issuu.com/chapalavirtual/docs/pagina_no.3_2015

It seems that some people got together to beg that he not be released this time. The judge has already found him "not guilty" four times.
Of course, they will always be others. Hopefully they are not made of Teflon like El Pichon.

how the haitch do ya get to page 16 from that convoluted link?

Pedro wrote:how the haitch do ya get to page 16 from that convoluted link?

I am on an ipad and I just tap on the photo of the cover and slide my finger left to get to the next page.

Assuming you are not on a mobile device try clicking on the cover page with your mouse to get to the next page. I'll log on to my other puter to see how it works. Hope that helps.