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Post by ChickenLittle on Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:38 pm

One would not expect to find a comment on TOB but am surprised no one picked up on the story in yesterday's Informador. In case you missed it I put it through Google translation and here it is in English.

The Federal Competition Commission (CFC) imposed economic sanctions on 33 commercial agents related to the housing market on the banks of Lake Chapala

MEXICO CITY. The Federal Competition Commission (CFC) imposed economic sanctions on 33 commercial agents related to the housing market on the banks of Lake Chapala, for the commission of absolute monopolistic practices.

The antitrust agency said that it is 14 real estate agencies, 15 runners holders of these agencies and two independent real estate brokers, as well as AC Lake Real Estate Group, which brings together these agents and the Mexican Association of Real Estate Professionals, Section Chapala AC .

He said a total of 24 million 373 thousand 975 pesos imposed fines ranging from 35,000 pesos to four million 239 488 000 577 pesos for each trader, according to the economic capacity and participation of everyone in the monopolized market.

Through a statement, the FCC stated that the House found that sanctioned agents commission agreed to set a single charge for the provision of real estate services, nullifying competition between them at the expense of consumers of these services, which is a violation Article 9, Section I, of the Federal Law of Economic Competition.

The CFC president Eduardo Perez Motta, said "beyond the direct economic impact on the market in Chapala, this case is a clear sign that the CFC monitors real estate markets around the country." He said the agency "will not hesitate to impose sanctions where it finds monopolistic practices to the detriment of the consumer."

Sanctioned operators have 30 working days to lodge an appeal before the CFC. (NTX)

Main sanctioned

• Mexican Association of Real Estate Professionals, Section Chapala
• Harmonic Architecture
• Good Weather Realty
• Ajijic Property Trust
• Casa Mexico MLS, Real Estate
• Chapala Realty
• Continental Realty
• Eager and Associates
• Hernandez Realty Group
• Real Estate Interlago
• Laguna Real Estate
• Properties by the Lake
• Off Realty
• Luis Fernando Rojas Arias
• Real Estate The tepal
• Sandra Elizabeth Allin Brisco
• Dixie Leen Ann Nicholson
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Post by Mrs. Rupert on Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:16 pm

This was also a topic on TOB, but when I went there to follow up, it had been removed- today! It was only posted this morning. I would assume that posting what info is available on TOB, it is removed when
the news is not to the host's liking. I hope this posting is not removed from this site.

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Post by Ms.Thang on Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:42 pm

This is just a continuation of that whole real estate "scandal" that started years ago. All it is is that these are brokers who use the MLS (multiple listing service) just like it's used elsewhere. MLS isn't used in other parts of Mexico and as far as I can tell it isn't illegal because they are still using it. The realtors will appeal and it will continue.
Did this thing change the way anyone did real estate business around here? If it is monopolistic and Mexico is not O.k. With that why is the MLS still in business here?
I thought Mexico loves monopolies.

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Post by CanuckBob on Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:00 pm

To me it looks like they have been busted for collusion in setting Real Estate fees. I don't see how that has anything to do with an MLS other than if you want to be a part of it you had to agree to these set fees. This does not happen elsewhere. Being that TOB is owned by one of the companies in question it is not surprising they removed it.
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Post by Zedinmexico on Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:33 pm

Now do you think they would keep a post on TOB about real estate fee collusion when the owners of the board are part of the real estate community locally?

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Post by Mainecoons on Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:34 pm

Mrs. Rupert wrote:This was also a topic on TOB, but when I went there to follow up, it had been removed- today!  It was only posted this morning.  I would assume that posting what info is available on TOB, it is removed when
the news is not to the host's liking.  I hope this posting is not removed from this site.

You're right.  I locked it because several posters spelled out in detail just what the realtors got fined for, namely price fixing of commissions. So the topic was covered and it did hit pretty close to home.

I guess the board's sponsor, Chapala Realty, who is also one of those that got fined, removed the thread.

Not much to add to the story.  They got nailed for requiring 8 percent commissions, plus VAT, without negotiation, or the home sale would not be listed in MLS.  

What is interesting is that the same thing happened to the broker we worked with in Washington D.C. along with a bunch more for doing exactly the same kind of price fixing.


Last edited by Mainecoons on Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Mainecoons on Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:36 pm

Mexico loves monopolies when you are Carlos Slim or you're a beer magnate or you sell cement, or you sell cars at retail with no negotiating, etc.

This is just the usual government scam of busting the little fish and small money while the big money steals more big money.
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Post by Ms.Thang on Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:03 pm

If I remember correctly all of this started as the result of a lawsuit filed by Justice Hauser who owns All In One Realty, they didn't exactly get "caught" doing anything.

I wonder if the price of real estate here would go down if Chapala started doing RE business the way the rest of Mexico does...no co op, you list it you sell it and all that. It sure does seem like it would be more difficult to buy and sell around here.
I guess we won't ever know because in spite of the bazillion $ fines things are going along exactly the same.

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Post by Pedro on Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:23 pm

we got such a good deal on our house that we dint care about the fees. i did think the notario was a bit high though, but again-no big deal. our agent from hernandez,lulu, was super! we had a budget and it was just slightly higher. after all the reno's it came in under what we had set in 2000 because or canbuck was worth more. we are happy campers.
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Post by CanuckBob on Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:31 pm

Ms.Thang wrote:If I remember correctly all of this started as the result of a lawsuit filed by Justice Hauser who owns All In One Realty, they didn't exactly get "caught" doing anything.

I wonder if the price of real estate here would go down if Chapala started doing RE business the way the rest of Mexico does...no co op, you list it you sell it and all that. It sure does seem like it would be more difficult to buy and sell around here.
I guess we won't ever know because in spite of the bazillion $ fines things are going along exactly the same.

Huh???? They have RE agents all over Mexico. You think they only have them at Lake Chapala or am I misunderstanding something here?
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Post by David on Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:12 pm

This is not "just" the continuation of something that started years ago, it is the final result.  Since RE agents aren't licensed here, there's no law governing them.  So, there is no "standard" commission like to find up north.  They had their own litttle local organization with a nice logo that made most northerners think there was something official about it all.  But no, they were all in cahoots and fixed the commission and those that didn't play along were ostracised and denigrated.  The wheels of justice grind slowly.
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Post by David on Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:14 pm

Mainecoons wrote:
Mrs. Rupert wrote:This was also a topic on TOB, but when I went there to follow up, it had been removed- today!  It was only posted this morning.  I would assume that posting what info is available on TOB, it is removed when
the news is not to the host's liking.  I hope this posting is not removed from this site.

You're right.  I locked it because several posters spelled out in detail just what the realtors got fined for, namely price fixing of commissions.  So the topic was covered and it did hit pretty close to home.

I guess the board's sponsor, Chapala Realty, who is also one of those that got fined, removed the thread.

Not much to add to the story.  They got nailed for requiring 8 percent commissions, plus VAT, without negotiation, or the home sale would not be listed in MLS.  

What is interesting is that the same thing happened to the broker we worked with in Washington D.C. along with a bunch more for doing exactly the same kind of price fixing.

Sure.  They wouldn't want any news of their ILLEGAL behavior to be made public, now would they?
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Post by Ms.Thang on Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:26 pm

Most real estate agents in Chapala work differently than the ones in the rest of Mexico. They put all of the listings into a single data base, co op, show each other's listings, sell each other's listings, split commissions etc...And there is the infamous fixed commission or you can't list in the MLS and all of that.  
In other parts of Mexico There is no MLS ( only here in Chapala!) a seller might list their house with six different agents and the commission is agreed upon between the seller and the agent.
So, the agents in Chapala, like Justice Hauser, who did not want to be part of GIL or the RE agents association or whatever it was called, felt like they were squeezed out because they couldn't list their listings in MLS . Now any of those agents could join, no one was excluded , they just didn't want to.






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Post by Ms.Thang on Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:32 pm

David wrote:This is not "just" the continuation of something that started years ago, it is the final result.  Since RE agents aren't licensed here, there's no law governing them.  So, there is no "standard" commission like to find up north.  They had their own litttle local organization with a nice logo that made most northerners think there was something official about it all.  But no, they were all in cahoots and fixed the commission and those that didn't play along were ostracised and denigrated.  The wheels of justice grind slowly.

So what are they doing differently now? Isn't the commission still fixed ?

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Post by David on Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:59 pm

Nothing different since it wasn't settled until this week.
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Post by brigitte on Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:28 pm

we will see if anything changes..the wheel of justice ia not the only thing that goes slowly. In chiapas and France for that matter you tell the agent you want so much for your house and they put up the price. Most realtors do not have exclusivity so the same house is listed at different prices on papers or internet..it makes looking for a house more complic
ated rather than less complicated , houses sit on the market for years and most of them are sold by owner and do not even have a for sale sign..talking about screwy..

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Post by Mrs. Rupert on Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:09 am

Yes, the final decision was just decided for those involved, and to have the discussion on TOB locked and removed is not justified, under any stretch- it was not even 'up' for a day! Ludicrous.

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Post by David on Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:18 am

No bad news allowed there.
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Post by CanuckBob on Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:46 am

Mrs. Rupert wrote:Yes, the final decision was just decided for those involved,  and to have the discussion on TOB locked and removed is not justified, under any stretch- it was not even 'up' for a day!  Ludicrous.

Well TOB is owned by a RE company and it is their right to allow whatever and whomever on their site. Their censorship of many people and events are what spawned this forum and a few others so they should keep up the good work.....jaja.
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Post by David on Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:51 am

We said Bob, and thanks for providing an alternative where news, truth, and controversy are allowed!
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Post by Playaboy on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:23 am

And good place to debate issues.

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Post by Ms.Thang on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:34 am

Did everyone vote today?

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Post by itsme on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:35 am

Interestingly the Guadalajara Reporter did not report on this story, might lose their advertisers?

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Post by ChickenLittle on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:51 am

I wondered the same thing. Why wasn't it in the Guadalajara Reporter?
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Post by slainte39 on Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:43 am

The decision is an exercise in semantics, as organizations, corporations, their assets, and the assets of private individuals involved, will  disappear like snow on a hot July day.
Then a new batch of mushrooms will appear.
"Es Mexico"

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