Lakeside Developments - Fracc or Condo?

I'm trying to come up with a list of developments and whether they are technically a Fracc or Condo (for an article). Any assistance with additions, deletions and corrections welcome and appreciated. I think some places without restricted access might technically be condos that have just decided not to pay for entrance security (?). Is it possible that some of the restricted access developments might be fraccs that are not completed yet, where streets haven't been turned over to the city, or are all closed-off areas a condo development? The MLS lists developments as "gated" without really specifying, so it's confusing. I'm sure some I have listed as a Condo development might actually be a Fracc. Here's the list I have so far...

Condos:

Arroyo Alto
Birds of Paradise
Casa Pericos
Chula Vista Norte
Cielo Vista
El Chante
El Dorado
El Eden
El Limon
El Manglar
El Parque
Hamacas Country Villas
La Canacinta
La Cristina
La Huerta
La Reserva
La Villita
Lomas de Ajijic
Lomas del Lago
Lomas del Manglar
Los Arrayanes
Los Arroyos
Los Arroyos Sur
Los Lirios
Los Olivos
Los Sabinos
Mision Chula Vista
Nuevo Chapala
Puerta Arroyo
Rancho del Oro
Riviera Alta
Tres Cañadas
Villa Nova
Villa Pacifica
Vista Alegre
Vista del Lago

Fraccs:

Brisas de Chapala
Chapala Haciendas
Chula Vista (? might be a condo)
La Floresta
Las Fuentes
Mirasol
Raquet Club
Riberas del Pilar (? might be city run now)
Roca Azul

Please, oh PLEASE don't turn this into a discussion of the merits or failings of condos and fraccs... that's been talked to death elsewhere! I'm just trying to compile a factual list for reference. Thanks, all!

Heather

Two I think you missed

Villas de Tepalo - Up by Lomas del Lago & Lomas de Ajijic - Condo I think
Las Terazzas - On Libramiento between Vista Alegre & Chula Vista Norte - Condo I think

Thanks, Juan... I've added them to my list.

There is an area of nice houses in Chapala Haciendas called Condominiums Chapala Hacienda. This was the first development of U.S. style lots Lakeside - I am guessing mid to late 1970's?

Thanks, Chillin.

Anybody know of other Fraccs that I don't have listed already? I would have thought there were more, or that some of the Condos on my list might actually be Fraccs instead.

Heather

hkrause wrote:Thanks, Chillin.

Anybody know of other Fraccs that I don't have listed already? I would have thought there were more, or that some of the Condos on my list might actually be Fraccs instead.

Heather

Lomas del Manglar is a Fracc, not a Condo
Villa Alta is a Condo (Villa Alta is located above Lomas del Manglar)

It's been over 3 years since I lived in Lomas del Manglar and I don't know if they changed their status but Lomas del Manglar was a Fracc when I lived there.

I am looking for some examples of condominios that are around the size of 15 units. Would somebody please identify if any in the list are smaller? Thank you.

Villa Nova is a fracc not a condo. Many on your condo list I've always thought of as fraccs.

Condominios:
- Villas Santa Fe - 5 or 6 properties
- Las Quintas  - 14 properties

Wow, thanks for the prompt response! Would you have any contact information for someone in the administration of each of these? So sorry I forgot to ask for it before. I need some hard data on how other condos of similar size to ours are operating.

Los Arroyos Sur - 18 properties. I don't have any contact info.

Fracc -
Las Catarinas - 33 properties.
Sorry no contact info for any Ive listed.

Cavatina wrote:Wow, thanks for the prompt response!  Would you have any contact information for someone in the administration of each of these?  So sorry I forgot to ask for it before.  I need some hard data on how other condos of similar size to ours are operating.    

Now that's letting your fingers do the walking! Where are your condos?

Well shucks...thanks!!  I was an IT Business Analyst in another life.

I would rather not say where we are beyond that it is in the Lakeside area.  I am very sensitive to security.  This discussion is on the net.  Sorry!  What does it matter where we are?  I think examples from Ajijic will work fine as comparables.  We're all under the Jalisco Civil Code.  Or is there something I'm missing?

Now I am confused. Heather started this thread and now Cavatina has taken over. I KNOW there is something I am missing.  

i think technically Rancho del Oro is a Fracc not condos. They may have some small sets of condos within the neighborhood, but they are not all condos.

in fact, Rancho del Oro is more a neighborhood than it is a Fracc.

I agree with lunateak, and would never consider Chula Vista Norte condos or most on the condo list. I think you need some help sorting out what is considered a condo and a fracc. There are condos in El Dorado but there are homes as well. Aren't individual homes in a gated community called a gated community or smaller development a coto? Wide open developments are a fracc? Chula Vista I believe is a fracc that also has condos.

chapalamls has a long list of developments, some with descriptions.

I look forward to reading your article, sounds like a lot of work and effort will be put into it!

Fairly sure Vista del Lago is a fracc not a condo....

There is a formal Lakeside Associate of Fraccs and Condominios, btw....look it up and you'll be able to get a lot of good info much more easily and they always appreciate interested participation.

Thanks, all. Actually, the article was out in April, so I don't have a way to change the list I sent at that time. Hopefully folks will search around and find this thread if they're wanting updated and more accurate info. The condo/fracc article was part of a series I'm doing, and the first installment had a link to Inside Lakeside as a source for more info.

Heather

Lori aka MHSH:

After your many years of living in Mexico, why do you not understand the difference between the NOB term "condo" and the Mexican definition of "condominio"? Please let me help you out here: we bought into a "condomino developement" on the hill overlooking Ixtlahuacan and that was how the developer registered this group of what we would call townhouses or patio homes.

CheenaGringo wrote:Lori aka MHSH:

After your many years of living in Mexico, why do you not understand the difference between the NOB term "condo" and the Mexican definition of "condominio"?  Please let me help you out here: we bought into a "condomino developement" on the hill overlooking Ixtlahuacan and that was how the developer registered this group of what we would call townhouses or patio homes.

thank you. Probably do not understand the difference because I have never lived in a condo. Condo is short for condominium in the US, the same word in Spanish. Not sure we have it straight yet. We've stayed in condo's in resort areas in the US and Mexico that were both one and two level, well the condos in Mexico were one level. Condo has always been a more attractive word than apartment, no? I'm still not clear what the difference is between an apartment from a condo except condo seems classier. Yes, I understand that townhouses are at least two stories. Yet our home in Guadalajara, 3 stories, wall to wall wasn't a townhouse nor was it free standing from other homes, it was a single resident home. Interesting that the the development over the hill are condos...unless I just forgot. Those homes are wall to wall aren't they? Yet it isn't gated and too small to be a fracc, makes sense.

Heather, I didn't realize that the op was earlier this year, do you have a link to the article you wrote? Maybe I can learn something.

Condominium NOB is the term used to describe a type of ownership. If a development, or building, or group of homes is set up as a condominium the owners have a share in the overall property as defined by the condominium by-laws. Common property is maintained by the group as a whole and funded by proportional assessments and dues. An apartment building that may have been owned by a single landlord could be converted to condominiums and each unit (previously an apartment) could be sold individually.

MyHomeSweetHome wrote:...thank you.  Probably do not understand the difference because I have never lived in a condo.  Condo is short for condominium in the US, the same word in Spanish.  Not sure we have it straight yet.  ...

Heather,  I didn't realize that the op was earlier this year, do you have a link to the article you wrote?  Maybe I can learn something.

From my understanding, here in Mexico, there is a legal differentiation between a fracc and a condo. Spencer or somebody better qualified can correct me, but here's an attempt to explain in layman's terms...

Essentially, a condo is one piece of property owned by a condo association, which is essentially all the homeowners within the condo development (although the houses within are owned individually). Since the entire development is private property, including the roads within, the development can be closed off or gated with restricted access (although it doesn't have to be... it depends on the wishes and finances of the condo association/homeowners). The condo association provides facilities and services for the residents (possibly water, trash pickup, security, etc) financed by dues, which are collected from all members. The condo association has certain legal rights and abilities to enforce rules and collect dues within the confines of that development.

A Fracc is somewhat like a homeowner's association might be up north. It is a defined area of homes with a governing body that has rules and collects dues to pay for services like a condo. I believe the properties within are individually owned, but the streets are not private, so the houses can be gated and closed off, but not the entire development... the streets must allow public access. I think the fracc also has less legal control over enforcing the rules and collecting dues, which can lead to some issues with residents who are unwilling to pay or abide by the rules. Seems like more of an "honor" system. If the fracc provides some service, like water, they can withhold that service if somebody is uncooperative, but they don't have much other recourse.

Hopefully some legal eagle will jump in here and add details or corrections if I've misspoken! All of the above is basically info I've gleaned from reading the boards and other websites, and you know how reliable that can be sometimes.   

As for the article I wrote, it's part of a series on housing considerations when shopping for a place to rent or buy in the Lakeside area. There have been 5 installments so far, with more to come. Here's a link to my article list on the website... the one you're looking for is 2nd on the list, called "More Housing Considerations."  http://mexicoexpatpress.com/author/heather-krause

Note that this is a paid subscription site, so all you can read without a subscription is a little tease for each article... sorry. She's got several past issues now, so you can look around and see if the content might be worth your pesos. Thanks for asking.

Heather