New immigration process?

Hello all -- I previously posted a couple of inquiries in the "Mirador" section on immigration law for brand new immigrants. We did manage to obtain our Residente Temporal at the Mexican consulate in Sacramento, and after a multi-day drive with three chihuahuas sitting atop our worldly goods, we did arrive in Ajijic with no problem.

We've been here a week so yesterday decided to visit INM to trade our temporary visas for the residency card. After much confusion we decided we'd better get a lawyer to help us but so far have been unable to find anyone who has actually done this process yet! Everyone seems to think we would've already paid our Visa fees in Sacramento, which we didn't -- just a small processing fee. Also, we're hearing that only Mexico City is even capable of issuing the cards yet, but that if we go ahead and apply now it will count for being inside the "30 day" requirement.

We are not getting a lot of confidence out of all of this!

So my question is: has any NOB gone through this process yet? If so, did you do it yourself or did you use a lawyer, and which lawyer?

If any lawyers are reading this who have actually done this process, please let us know! We really want to make sure we do it right so as not to have issues down the road.

Thanks!

P.S. This move is the culmination of 2 years of planning and we couldn't be happier to finally be here!

Hi, we have done it, call my office 765 7553 we will need your passports, cards when you crossed border, utility bill, photos and money to complete the process.

Spencer

Sambrit10 -- if you do a search on this board or TOB, think you will find that "Intercasa" -- i.e. Spencer -- is the go-to-guy for the INM process as well as understanding other legal ramifications of residing here.

Second the motion re Intercasa, Aka Spencer. His office staff is efficient and he's almost across the street from the INM office in Chapala.
In Mexico, you need to have connections to a lawyer, just in case. Things happen.
There are other "facilitators" who can help you with the process. We used Spencer, had a good experience and don't know the others; thus the recommendation.

And above all: Welcome to Mexico

We also recommend Spencer (aka Intercasa on the forums).

Looks like Spencer it is! I've heard nothing but good things about him. Thanks all!

Now, I´m sure Spencer is a great attorney and an amiable fellow but this notion that you need a lawyer to facilitate this simple process is absurd. We have been here since 2001. We have acquired the old FM-3, FM-2 and "Inmigrado" visas on our own without ever using any "facilitator" or attorney services whatsoever. While one of us is fluent in Spanish these days, during the first five years of this process, neither of us spoke Spanish and we still accomplished this annually with no help whatsoever.

This fantasy tale that one needs a facilitator or attorney to get through this immigration process is taking on the cloak of an imperative. The system is supposed to work for the layperson without greasing the pockets of advisors. At least give it a try. Just go down to the INM office and apply for a residency permit by yourself without paying someone to hold your hand. Show a little gumption.

Nah, it's far more convenient and expeditious to employ Spencer. The small amount he charges is less than my time is worth.

David wrote:Nah, it's far more convenient and expeditious to employ Spencer. The small amount he charges is less than my time is worth.

Agree 1,000%.

Plenty of opportunities to display "gumption" without the aggravation of dealing with the Mexican bureaucracy.

gringal wrote:Plenty of opportunities to display "gumption" without the aggravation of dealing with the Mexican bureaucracy.

Total nonsense. The INM people in Chapala never gave us any trouble at all over ten years of dealing with them. They were invariably courteous and helpful and, when we needed it in the old days, spoke English fluently. It´s sad to see old goobers fold even before they´ve been threatened. What a bunch of frail old weiner bags. No wonder INM is trying to reinforce the standards for immigrants. They seem to be attracting people who would be afraid to buy a ticket on the Greyhound to Dubuque without the advice of an attorney.

hound dog wrote:

gringal wrote:Plenty of opportunities to display "gumption" without the aggravation of dealing with the Mexican bureaucracy.

Total nonsense. The INM people in Chapala never gave us any trouble at all over ten years of dealing with them. They were invariably courteous and helpful

Dawg,if I remember right your conversion to inmigrado didn't go all that smoothly,something about a difficult heavy set woman at the Guadalajara INM and how happy you were in the knowledge that you would never have to deal with them again.
I've never paid a facilitator either, but I can understand why some would choose to do so.

viajero wrote:

hound dog wrote:

gringal wrote:Plenty of opportunities to display "gumption" without the aggravation of dealing with the Mexican bureaucracy.

Total nonsense. The INM people in Chapala never gave us any trouble at all over ten years of dealing with them. They were invariably courteous and helpful

Dawg,if I remember right your conversion to inmigrado didn't go all that smoothly,something about a difficult heavy set woman at the Guadalajara INM and how happy you were in the knowledge that you would never have to deal with them again.
I've never paid a facilitator either, but I can understand why some would choose to do so.

Actually, a heavy-set fellow.

Conversation:

Heavy Set Fellow (to Wife) : Sorry but we lost your file.
Wife: Bullshit. Call the supervisor.
HSF: Oops! What do you know, we just found it.

You don´t need an attorney to pull that off, you just need balls. My darlin wife came with those.

Those of you without balls go hire some.

Lucky you.
I'd rather use a facilitator than grow a set at this point.

Well, lucky for me I feel no need to defend my manliness (not being a man) over using a facilitator. The truth is, there is so much confusion over this new process, even finding a facilitator that knows what they're doing is a challenge. If it was an established process, no problem, but it's not.

Two lawyers we talked to hadn't even ever done one, and one of them told us things that we pretty much knew weren't right. So that didn't increase our confidence.

We did originally present ourselves at INM with the intention of doing it ourselves. Waited an hour and a half for it to open (an hour late), then were carried along in the stream of humanity also waiting. Got seen quickly, but immediately were asked for our bank statements (which we understood we didn't need) and our car permit (which doesn't seem to have anything to do with getting the resident card). Or, maybe we that's what we thought they were asking for. Our Spanish is decent but it was VERY noisy and the staff talks fast.

There was also much confusion over the fact that our local Mexican consulate hadn't collected our visa fees. Which just goes to show that the consulates are confused, too.

We decided that the modest fees were worth it to have someone else explain to INM how the new process actually works. If I could pay someone else to go to the dentist for me, I would. It's kinda like that.

We brought the necessary documents (which did not include bank statements or car permit!) to Intercasa yesterday and they put together our package quickly and will let us know what happens next.

Further confusion: the new residency cards are currently only being produced in Mexico with long delays. So, knowing we couldn't actually get a card, and not wanting to violate our 30 day temporary visa unknowingly, we opted for the peace of mind of knowing that things are being handled correctly.

P.S. Also, I just have to add a remark that it seems like EVERYTHING I post turns into a trade of insults against me or against someone else posting. Very unpleasant, and I know the board owner doesn't intend for it to be this way. Anyway, many thanks to those who offered CONSTRUCTIVE advice.

hound dog wrote:

gringal wrote:Plenty of opportunities to display "gumption" without the aggravation of dealing with the Mexican bureaucracy.

Total nonsense. The INM people in Chapala never gave us any trouble at all over ten years of dealing with them. They were invariably courteous and helpful and, when we needed it in the old days, spoke English fluently. It´s sad to see old goobers fold even before they´ve been threatened. What a bunch of frail old weiner bags. No wonder INM is trying to reinforce the standards for immigrants. They seem to be attracting people who would be afraid to buy a ticket on the Greyhound to Dubuque without the advice of an attorney.

You didn't try to get your new cards AFTER the new rules came in or you'd be singing a totally different tune. They were at best total jerks back then (Nov. and Dec.), lying to the attorneys and facilitators. Will you deny this after it was ALL over EVERY web forum? BALLS or not, your wife would not have gotten anywhere.

sambrit10 - Ignore those who would insult you over this or any of your other posts.

hound dog wrote:

gringal wrote:Plenty of opportunities to display "gumption" without the aggravation of dealing with the Mexican bureaucracy.

Total nonsense. The INM people in Chapala never gave us any trouble at all over ten years of dealing with them. They were invariably courteous and helpful and, when we needed it in the old days, spoke English fluently. It´s sad to see old goobers fold even before they´ve been threatened. What a bunch of frail old weiner bags. No wonder INM is trying to reinforce the standards for immigrants. They seem to be attracting people who would be afraid to buy a ticket on the Greyhound to Dubuque without the advice of an attorney.

OK, I don't even know how to respond to something this vitriolic as a response to my simple request for some info.

If you would rather spend the day waiting in line at the INM than lunching with friends or strolling the malecon, be my guest! My decisions on how to spend my time/money don't have anything to do with you, and you can do what you want with yours. I can't fathom why you have to get so foamy at the mouth over something that does not affect you IN ANY WAY!

Again, thanks to all who actually had friendly and helpful answers to my question.

Post deleted. By the time I posted other posts were added that rendered mine pointless.

When we got our "Inmigrado" (permanent resident) cards in November, 2010, before, by the way, there was any indication this new law would ever come about and create all this confusion, Dawg was so ecstatic I felt like the guy who just took a dump after ten years of constipation. It´s true, as I stated above, that we never used nor felt the need to use a facilitator but that was before this new law gummed up the works. Who knows, today, the way things are going, I just might be at Spencer´s desk myself seeking someone to facilitate the process and in that sense, Spencer may be providing a valuable service to the foreign community at what sounds like a reasonable cost.

What I have been concerned about is the notion that we might have to, once again, go to the dreaded INM office in Chapala to trade in our "Inmigrado" cards for the new "Residente Permanente" cards in order to conform to the new regulations. The "Inmigrado" cards are permanent, without any expiration dates and clearly state in both Spanish and English on the card that the owner of the card is a permanent resident so why bother to trade in that card for a new card with a new designation? I am somewhat relieved that my wife just crossed the border from Guatemala into Mexico yesterday at La Mesilla and the old "Inmigrado" card was accepted by Mexican immigration without even a raised eyebrow. Move on, I say.

As an aside, considering the nastiness and petulance exhibited by Sambrit10 and Joec in a couple of posts preceding this one, it doesn´t surprise me that the personnel at INM in Chapala are on edge. It appears that Spencer´s primary function is more ombudsman than facilitator.

"show a little gumption"; "old goobers"; and "frail old wiener bags" ....are just the way Dawg talks in his So. Alabama colloquial style and doesn't contain as much vitriol as you would infer.
Probably all those descriptive phrases he would apply to himself at one time or another. Take him with a grain of salt as he probably needs to vent and rant on here once in a while as an anecdote to a very much in charge French Mme.

Now just try to behave " a little better" Dawg and remember not everyone sees through you.

slainte39 wrote:"show a little gumption"; "old goobers"; and "frail old wiener bags" ....are just the way Dawg talks in his So. Alabama colloquial style and doesn't contain as much vitriol as you would infer.
Probably all those descriptive phrases he would apply to himself at one time or another. Take him with a grain of salt as he probably needs to vent and rant on here once in a while as an anecdote to a very much in charge French Mme.

Now just try to behave " a little better" Dawg and remember not everyone sees through you.

Hmmm. I've never entirely bought the "that's just the way he is" reason as an excuse for being a curmudgeon. But, thanks for giving me some perspective.

He's a great story teller and a mite crotchety on occasion but responds well to "Baaaaad puppy!".
What used to be easy at immigration is, at present, a freakin' nightmare. Unfortunate timing for you. You have your priorities correct...having a nice lunch and a walk on the malecon is much better than stewing at immigration.

sambrit10 wrote:

Hmmm. I've never entirely bought the "that's just the way he is" reason as an excuse for being a curmudgeon. But, thanks for giving me some perspective.

Ni yo tampoco.....but it's at least it's a path to compromise.

I reread Dawg's last post and now realize I'm the one who's nasty and petulant. So I guess I'd better just quietly withdraw before I cause any more trouble.

Just one more remark -- thumbs up for Intercasa!

No sambrit. You are not nasty and petulent. After you have been reading Dawg for a while you realize he can be great entertainment, full of information, or a sarcastic, know-it-all suminabeach--sometimes all in the same post. That is not an excuse for him, just an explanation and reason for not taking anything he says personally.