FM3 renewal - heads up

We were at the end of our FM3, five years and proceeded to apply for the new credential. Which, by the way, is not called an FM3. The card simply says "No Inmigrante." All seemed to be going well and we went to Guadalajara to collect our new cards. Mine, no problema. Hers, they required a copy of our marriage certificate, translated, before hers can be issued. We had to provide an apostilled copy of our marriage certificate to get our original FM3s. The fact that we had and submitted those FM3s made no difference.

Therefore, if you're a couple you'll need a translated copy of your marriage certificate or show that the spouse has sufficient income of their own. So we're have to get a translated copy and make another trip to Guadalajara and wait for 3 hours. Hopefully by next year at this time there will be an INM office in Chapala.

It is best to not have the spouse tied to you if possible to avoid this but also other issues that can arise in the future.

What would those issue be? We're on this track now, same one we've been on for five years. What are the options Spencer?

Well it is better to be independent for a few reasons and I'll list some that come to mind not that (m)any apply to you specifically.

In the event of divorce or one party changing their status (FM3 to FM2 or to inmigrado or something else) it doesn't mess the other party up. I've seen alot of creative things done and independence can make it easier.

Some people have the income or deposits to do each party apart and that is best. I guess I've seen some issues where if the parties where independent there wouldn't be an issue.

I've seen people without the income level (i.e. deposits) play the deposit game 4 months before their papers are due.

Does one usually have to show all the same documents every year when an FM3 is renewed or just the first time around (marriage cert., proof of income, photo's, proof of residency, etc)??

In the past, with the old FM-3, we had to provide; proof of income and proof of address (utility bill). With the new card we'll probably have to provide those and new photos. Time will tell. Hopefully by later this year there will be an INM office in Chapala. They've been threatening to open one there for some time now.

David wrote:We were at the end of our FM3, five years and proceeded to apply for the new credential. Which, by the way, is not called an FM3. The card simply says "No Inmigrante." All seemed to be going well and we went to Guadalajara to collect our new cards. Mine, no problema. Hers, they required a copy of our marriage certificate, translated, before hers can be issued. We had to provide an apostilled copy of our marriage certificate to get our original FM3s. The fact that we had and submitted those FM3s made no difference.

Therefore, if you're a couple you'll need a translated copy of your marriage certificate or show that the spouse has sufficient income of their own. So we're have to get a translated copy and make another trip to Guadalajara and wait for 3 hours. Hopefully by next year at this time there will be an INM office in Chapala.

The INM office in Guadalajara was similarly a nightmare for us. The office is a crowded, airless hell-hole where one waits interminably to deal with barely considerate and harassed functionaries trying to cope with the relatively new procedures with which they are still familiarizing themselves.

My wife and I went there in September to upgrade our FM-2 visas to inmigrado status preparing our own documentation from scratch on our home computer in accordance with specific INM computerized instructions and, get this, this is after five years as FM-3 holders and five years as FM-2 holders. I´ll bet I can equal your horror story:

When my wife, who is a French citizen, moved here in 2001, her passport read her name as "so-an-so", ep. (my sir name). "Ep." stands for "epouse" or the French equivalent of "esposa" in Spanish. Both in France and Mexico, a female spouse´s name is her maiden name, "ep." or "de" (husband´s last name) rather than have her assume her husband´s last name as is customary in the U.S. Since, back in 2001, INM could not cope with "ep." as it read on her passport, they insisted that my wife change the designation to "de". However, here in 2010, INM´s functionaries insisted that, since my wife´s name on her French passport read "ep." and her FM-2 read "de" (their idea 10 years ago), she was not the same person even though it was they who had changed the appellation on the FM-2 in the first place. Lengthy meetings with legal representatives of INM and much tiresome and argumentative discussion among various functionaries resulted in the necessity of our presenting formal letters in appropriately formal Spanish explaining this discrepancy plus a later return with revised documents to the INM Guadalajara hellhole in the federal building.

Now, my story is even better. I was born on February 7, 1942 or, as displayed in the U.S., 02/07/1942. Of course, in Mexico, that would read 07 February, 1942 or 07/02/1942. We inadvertently displayed my birth date in the American fashion or 02/07/1942 and submitted this birth date on my application along with our matured FM-2 and U.S. passport both of which indicated I was born on February 7th. My application was rejected for having the wrong birth date. I also had to resubmit my application with that same formal letter in Spanish admitting to my egregious error.

Both of these "discrepancies" required that we re-apply from scratch and pay additional processing fees of $890 Pesos each bringing our aggregate processing fees from $1,780 Pesos to $3,560 Pesos. Then, after all of this back to the hell hole for another torturous six hour stay in that airless room.

To make matters even more fun, once they have received your applications and attendant documents, they don´t notify you that you have been approved or disapproved, simply that you are to report to INM ASAP.
So, you go in there with much trepidation certain that they have nitpicked some other insignificant issue.

Now, I´m not making this up. We went back to INM certain that we would be in the "gulag" forever and considering the efficacy of seeking legal representation. So, after waiting in that terrible room for three more hours, we were called to the pickup window where they iinitially told us they could find no record of our application (obviously, functionary humor). Well we had the necessary paperwork to prove that we had applied and they went scrounging through their files, located our file, informed us our inmigrado application had been approved and issued us cards.

Now, here is why, if you plan to stay in Mexico and limit your time out of the country, you want to go the "inmigrante" leading to "inmigrado" route rather than the "no-inmigrante" route into eternity. When you get that inmigrado card, that´s it forever. No more INM. No more annual fees. No more proof of income or residential status and when you show that inmigrado card it states on its face in both English and Spanish that the person presenting that card is a "permanent resident of Mexico" and we travel to remote parts of Southern Mexico often enough to tell you that carries a lot of weight at highway checkpoints whether manned by the army, federales or immigration. When you are out there in the boonies straddling the Guatemala border, clarity of residential status in good standing is important. Authorities are quite touchy down there.
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June 15th is the date for us...end of five years of FM2 and we are applying for inmigrado status...total of 15 years paying with 10 of those as FM3's.
Dawg, why did you go for inmigrado status and not citizenship? Just curious as to your reasons.

I say go for citizenship status, many don't because one spouse doesn't speak Spanish well but if the one that does then applies for citizenship, then the other will get it with no tests for being married to a Mexican citizen for 2 years.

Citizenship is always the best unless one has special circumstances, I want to be a citizen, more rights and less worry if Mexico will truly be your future permanent home.

ferret wrote:June 15th is the date for us...end of five years of FM2 and we are applying for inmigrado status...total of 15 years paying with 10 of those as FM3's.
Dawg, why did you go for inmigrado status and not citizenship? Just curious as to your reasons.

Ferret:

Fear of test failure I suppose and inmigrado status seemed a step in the right direction after expiration of the FM-2. I only recently heard the "rumor" that I could achieve citizenship without taking the test if I were over 65 and whether or not that is true, I plan to apply for citizenship in Tuxtla Gutierrez when we get to Chiapas this winter because the staff there has proven very friendly in the past and we think, perhaps incorrectly, that SRE will be less busy there than in Guadalajara. Who knows. As I previously stated, we´ll inform you guys of our experience after we apply this June.

Intercasa wrote:I say go for citizenship status, many don't because one spouse doesn't speak Spanish well but if the one that does then applies for citizenship, then the other will get it with no tests for being married to a Mexican citizen for 2 years.

I didn't know that. Thank you. I believe that you can apply for citizenship at any time after receiving your inmigrado status. Would that be safer? What happens if you fail the test if you go straight for citizenship?...straight to the back of the queue?
And, is there a good website where I can bone up on Mexican History?