Sheetrock - using sheetrock as a building material lakeside

by Sherman Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:33 pm

From the US, I've lived with sheetrock in wet/snow climates, damp climates and desert/dry climates ... no problems.

I'm wondering about using it lakeside. I'm welcoming comments, thoughts, opinions and any 'tales' from using it here, good, bad or indifferent.

I'm assuming it would be used with steel posts or treated (for termites) lumber. Please comment on this also!

As always ... thanks for the input.

S. cheers

by CanuckBob Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:02 pm

I have seen lots of gyproc (sheetrock I assume) being used in commercial buildings around here on the inner walls. Walmart is a good example. It is used with aluminum studs. You can buy gyproc and aluminum studs at Home Depot. I have always thought about adding a second level to my house and thought gyproc with aluminum studs would be the way I would go to substantially reduce the weight. On the outside I would use the cementroc like they used on the building at the end of the pier.

by Jreboll Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:41 pm

It’s great for setting up dividing walls. I set one up between my kitchen and dining room, attached my own electric lines and overhead cabinets without any problems. I couldn’t have done it with brick and mortar. Don’t have the skills.

by Sherman Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:03 pm

thanks ... I'm asking because someone mentioned to me today that they selected a contractor deliberately who did not use sheetrock (gyproc) .. because they were afraid the sheetrock would absorb the dampness here. That had not been my experience up north, across several climates, so I wanted to get some additional input.

This has now helped me to 'narrow' my pick for contractors ... probably the one who is using "a lot of gyproc".

Thanks ...

by solajijic Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:06 pm

We have done the same thing as dividing walls or archways and doorways where we wanted to block off the rest of the hallway. Easy peasy and we ordered and bought ours locally any supply site can order for you. You do need to have a sheetrock finisher who knows what they are doing. My husband loves to do it and has been called in for several repairs on acquaintances houses where the finisher just slapped on (troweled on) basic cemento layers without finishing the joints. Cracks and falling cemento resulted so find an adequate dryrock finisher.

As for wood studs it has been a puzzle to me the fear of termites because they are either there or not. I have seen some houses decimated but others not touched for decades. Of course I ahve not lived where termites had ideal conditions. There are 4 or 5 houses around with old-fashioned tongue and groove wood floors on their second floor. It is really very surprising to walk into one of those rooms just because the wood floor is so unexpected. There are plenty of new builds using the laminate wood products and now the tile wood-look flooring.

by Jreboll Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:00 pm

Whereas in Texas termites rise from the ground here they are the result of those gnat-like flies that invades us at certain times of the year. They don’t seem to attack hard woods as much as the soft pine wood that is prevalent here. It helps if you seal and paint your wood on a regular basis. If you use a wood frame and cover it with Sheetrock it should remain impervious to these flies if it is well painted and spackled. It also helps to use screens on your windows and doors.

by Clete Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:11 pm

Jreboll wrote:Whereas in Texas termites rise from the ground here they are the result of those gnat-like flies that invades us at certain times of the year. They don’t seem to attack hard woods as much as the soft pine wood that is prevalent here. It helps if you seal and paint your wood on a regular basis. If you use a wood frame and cover it with Sheetrock it should remain impervious to these flies if it is well painted and spackled. It also helps to use screens on your windows and doors.

There are both types of termites here, drywood and subterranean. The drywood fly and the subterrranean come through the soil inside mud tubes they build. They are actually the more common here and the most damaging. There is nothing you can do outside of extermination (and that is nearly impossible) to keep them from getting to a food source. Covering wood studs with sheetrock is not a good idea. You may not see them until they have already caused heavy damage. Metal studs are the preferred material. Plus they don't mill dimensional lumbar such as 2x4s etc. here. And hardwoods are generally not termite proof. Some are more resistant than others but even some with the highest ranking on the Janka hardness scale are candy to termites.

by CanuckBob Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:27 pm

Clete, are they building entire houses around here with the metal stud frames and gyproc similar to what you would find NOB? If so, what are they using for exterior sheathing? Plywood, shiplap, concrete board or something else?

by Clete Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:38 pm

CanuckBob wrote:Clete, are they building entire houses around here with the metal stud frames and gyproc similar to what you would find NOB? If so, what are they using for exterior sheathing? Plywood, shiplap, concrete board or something else?

I've never seen complete residential homes built that way but there a lot of commercial buildings going up with Durock (cement board) exterior sheathing and gyprock interiors. A lot of homeowners are leery of hollow walls as potential nesting places for insects and other critters. I have used "Panel W" structural panel (wire-mesh with polyurethane cores) in several homes and the owners have been happy. Better thermal properties and much lighter than traditional brick and concrete. Structurally just as strong.

by Jreboll Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:46 pm

Crete, how do costs compare between more modern building methods and the traditional brick and concrete?

by solajijic Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:45 pm

On the top horizontal road in Vista del Lago is a house constructed with the "Panel W" sections. It was interesting to see it go up about 7 or 8 years ago. At the end they said the savings was 50% on materials and 70% on labor.

by Clete Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:41 pm

solajijic wrote:On the top horizontal road in Vista del Lago is a house constructed with the "Panel W" sections. It was interesting to see it go up about 7 or 8 years ago. At the end they said the savings was 50% on materials and 70% on labor.

I find those figures quite dubious. In my experience, the overall savings were between 10-15%. Mostly on labor. A lot depends on how well-trained the crew is working with panels and whether you use any reinforced concrete beams or posts. Also it takes a little more careful planning on locating backing for installation of cabinets or anything else that will be hung or attached to walls. Panel doesn't hold fasteners worth a damn so we located backing at strategic locations for installing kitchen cabinets etc. We also used concrete in window and door openings for installation of jamb stock. One area where money was saved was by using smaller footings because of the far less weight of the structure. The only rebar cages that had to be assembled were in the roofs between the sections of caseton and they use 1/4 inch rebar. The different panel manufacturers make roof panels but they are limited in span so I went with the losa ligerada that I used in all construction. The casetones also improved noise (far less) transmission between floors.

by CanuckBob Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:05 pm

Clete, if I was to do a second story on my house using steel studs, gyproc interor and cement board exterior what would my roofing options be? Could you still have a flat boveda style roof or would you have to go with something lighter?

by solajijic Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:03 pm

IT was so long ago but I recall he had a supplier deal to try to get builders to use it. Deals are always a good thing. I wish we could find the thread of posts about it. Oh well.

by CHILLIN Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:04 pm

I would never live in a sheetrock/drywall house. First of all it is like living in drum - any noise travels every where. Secondly, unless you are using veneer plaster, which I doubt is available anywhere in Mexico, you will have a problem with seams. They are ugly compared to the work of a skilled finishing mason. So many options, that drywall can never do, like textures and smooth as glass venetian plaster. The third problem is that everything finishes perfectly straight - which I find unattractive. It is not natural, like the two sides of the human face are different, that give the character. There is curved drywall, with tiny cuts, so the sheet can bend. I have friend who visited a very wealthy home in Vancouver. The owner had purchased an antique tapestry, right from the Vatican. He had it on a curved wall, but the curves were all made from 6" slices of drywall. Lots of money, but no taste.

by CanuckBob Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:13 pm

Really Chillin?? You live in an igloo all your life up there in the tundra??

It is standard practice to insulate traditional wood or metal framed, gyproc houses. As for the seams I seen mudders here using seam tape and poly fill just like the pro's up north.

by CHILLIN Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:28 pm

Good one Bob - but yes, always uninsulated plaster walls, old, old houses. That, and the heating bills, made it a lot easier to move to Mexico. There is a condo/apartment building in Puerto Vallarta that was built with commercial stucco and drywall techniques, after two years it started to fall apart, the unit unsaleable.

Another construction problem here in Mexico is that nothing is ever straight. Everything is eyeballed rather than measured. Makes it difficult to install already assembled kitchen cabinets and drywall.

by Clete Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:13 pm

CanuckBob wrote:Clete, if I was to do a second story on my house using steel studs, gyproc interor and cement board exterior what would my roofing options be? Could you still have a flat boveda style roof or would you have to go with something lighter?

I honestly couldn't give you a definitive answer. But there would be a number of factors such as open roof spans and interior bearing walls. But I can say that using a losa aligerada using 20cm thick casetones besides being far lighter, will give you a really great R value for heating or cooling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2gBFs_Iosc

by Clete Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:15 pm

CHILLIN wrote:

Another construction problem here in Mexico is that nothing is ever straight. Everything is eyeballed rather than measured. Makes it difficult to install already assembled kitchen cabinets and drywall.

That is beyond ridiculous. Where do you come up with this kind of bullsh*t?

by CHILLIN Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:35 am

Clete wrote:
CHILLIN wrote:
That is beyond ridiculous. Where do you come up with this kind of bullsh*t?

Its been true in every house in Mexico that I have lived in. In the one now, for example, you can see where all the tiles were custom cut to fit the "wobbles". This also why cabinet makers are in such high demand in Mexico - every installation is a custom job. If you want to live in a paper and plastic cracker box -go ahead.

by CanuckBob Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:19 am

Maybe you have only lived in crappy houses here? I have been in some pretty modern, beautiful multimillion dollar homes here that certainly weren't "eyeballed". Living in Canada for as long as you did solely in uninsulated, plaster walled old houses was a feat in itself. Just sayin..........

Beer

by CHILLIN Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:59 am

Thats funny CB - in Canada look at all the old houses in Shaugnessy, Point Grey, West Vancouver. My family lived in a 1.5 lot Mock Tudor on the Dunderave waterfront. It sold for just under five million 15 years ago. Then to a new condo, using the construction techniques you describe, it turned out to be one of the first leaky condos which plague Vancouver. Then we moved to an East Vancouver bungalow, in an area built for returning soldiers. We last lived on an acreage in South Surrey, California open style, built in the 1970s it sold for 1.4 million ten years ago, demolished, then a cracker box in its place.

In Mexico, first my parents, then us, lived in Puerto Vallarta, on the waterfront. Our balcony wall was the Federal Tideline, in a place built in 1963, needed a lot of restoration. Now we live in rambling, open concept, house built in 1978, it was built for entertaining, and a semi-retired country music star lived here many years. This also needs a lot of restoration

Before I retired, at 54, I was a Master Plasterer, teaching union apprentices heritage plaster restoration. I was also a union sculptor for the movie sets. I was the only mason approved to work on heritage marked properties because I had enough years experience and important references. Living in a house which breathes is entirely different. These beautiful old homes are worth preserving. None of them were "crappy"

by CanuckBob Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:56 am

Well anything I have ever seen built in the 70's in BC, especially South Surrey, would have been wood frame construction, insulated and gyproced interior.

by CHILLIN Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:35 pm

Of course. A lot of wood in that house, cedar plank roof. Definitely uninsulated - especially the crawl space. Tall, tall ceilings, multiple skylight and windows - impossible to heat. Same as the place we are in now. The South Surrey was originally a sheep farm, so maybe that had access to lots of wool. If there was drywall, it was definitely much thicker and stronger than today.

I have been involved in a couple heritage building to condo conversions. The developers like to use drywall to cut up the spaces. I repair the heritage parts, but they didn't realize the folly of using drywall in a multi unit building. One fire, say a kitchen fire, would set off the up code sprinklers, and all the drywall would have to be replaced, possibly over many floors. Look at the recent flood damage from the hurricanes - mold and falling apart in a very short time. Plaster can take a licking, cement stucco even more so. So drywall requires a roof which will not leak. For example, that video clete sent in, has no canted foam to help with rain run off. In Puerto Vallarta and in the north, they use CAD/CAM cut styrofoam panels, each panel is numbered. Pools of standing water will find a way in. Count on it.

They have a problem in the U.S. with cement stucco and lath, vapor barrier, then styrofoam or glass insulation. The unusual problem was wood peckers who just loved the sound of themselves pecking holes in it!

woodpecker damage

by ferret Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:32 pm

The house we lived in Ontario, just outside Thornbury, was 125 years old when we bought it in 1987. The basement walls were 3 feet thick stone and the walls (believe it or not) were slip form concrete and a foot thick. Lathe and plaster inside but the only insulation was in the attic. It was cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Almost like an above ground bomb shelter. There could be a howling blizzard going on outside but you didn't hear a thing inside. Perfectly placed too because the sun went right over the house in summer but hung low enough in winter to flood the house with sunshine on the south side. Not a single window on the west side.
They sure knew a thing or two about construction way back when. imho.

Had a combination wood burning/electric furnace in the basement. The electric only kicked in if the fire went out. It was kinda primeval going down there every morning, stirring the red hot ashes in the cast iron fire box and throwing in 3 logs (not split) about 18 inches in length and 8 to 10 inches in diameter. Close the door and walk away for 12 hours. Incredibly efficient.

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