GM Recall

Again, most of the sources I posted are stating current numbers.  I don't know how much more substance I can give you, I've cited credible references.  Did you read them?  Why do you feel the need to address your personal perceptions of the delivery rather than to post your analysis/rebuttals of the facts I've cited. Really, that is all that this was, you didn't address the topic at all:

Mainecoons has echoed his same style of argumentation that he used when litigating the LCS debacle.
Easy to see why he never joined the bar as an advocate trial attorney. Doubt if he would have won many cases, but would have kept many juries and judges confused.

I can guarantee you I'll read your citations.  If I'm wrong, let's see the proof.

GM may survive or it may not but the business press is pretty clear that the problems that would have been dealt with by allowing it to go into Chapter 11 reorganization have not been dealt with in large part, particularly the pension liabilities.  GM is still overpaying the help and covering for it with a temporary boost in sales from those big, gas eating trucks.  When will those chickens come home to roost?

I can't see the future anymore than you can, for example I didn't foresee the stock market balloon that Bernake's money printing would cause.  I do believe that like the housing balloon caused by easy money, this one is going to unravel at some point.  I would suggest that if you've profited by a right call on this situation that you not wait too long to take the money and run.  The fundamentals aren't there.

As for LCS, again, I cited the factual basis from the organization's governing laws and from the original 2009 minutes of how the Board at that time decided to turn a lump sum grant into an ongoing fund.  You may be interested to know that the entire Gillespie thing is being reviewed by the professional and qualified auditors that LCS has retained to move their book keeping up to the next level as a prelude to dealing with the new tax law.

This is just another indication that our elected LCS governors understand their limits and keep an open mind.  I don't see any of them posting the personal attacks and rants on these boards that this small handful of protagonists have entertained us with, do you?

May I suggest that the arrogance comes in when people substitute personal attack for honest debate of factual information and the interpretation thereof?

So Mainecoon since you apparently are setting rules for who may and may not post on a given topic based on place of residence - is this a legal topic for non-resident of Mexico?  I still cannot see the tie in to Mexico from the original OP titled GM Recall and the sidetrack you and Zed have chosen.  IMO opinion the points made by Slainte 39 are perfectly valid given your track record.  For years, no matter the topic, you have exhibited a "my way or the highway" in your posts on most any topic.  When you attack my opinions for being invalid or inaccurate because I don't happen to live in Mexico, you group yourself with a certain unnamed member who made lists and was just about as clueless about Mexico as yourself.

You are certainly free to "bully" people on TOB where you have the fear of your power but I call BS on this forum!!!

this crap has nothing to do with mexico and coon would be banned forthwith for his contribution if it were on the board where he is a mod-SNORK!

CheenaGringo wrote:So Mainecoon since you apparently are setting rules for who may and may not post on a given topic based on place of residence - is this a legal topic for non-resident of Mexico?  I still cannot see the tie in to Mexico from the original OP titled GM Recall and the sidetrack you and Zed have chosen.  IMO opinion the points made by Slainte 39 are perfectly valid given your track record.  For years, no matter the topic, you have exhibited a "my way or the highway" in your posts on most any topic.  When you attack my opinions for being invalid or inaccurate because I don't happen to live in Mexico, you group yourself with a certain unnamed member who made lists and was just about as clueless about Mexico as yourself.

You are certainly free to "bully" people on TOB where you have the fear of your power but I call BS on this forum!!!

Not at all.  Like a number of other here, I just wonder what you, a non resident from 1500 miles away, makes you qualified to attack the opinions of residents on purely local matters.  I lived in New Mexico for 14 years and certainly found plenty more to do there than post endlessly on a forum in Mexico.

Your specialty here does seem to be personal attack as we see once again from this post.  I give you both credit for "Octagonizing" this thread.  At least Slainte finally admitted to getting personal.  You seem incapable of doing so and highly committed to continuing the practice.

Of course you are free to do so and I and others am free to form an unfavorable opinion of you based on that practice.

As for the alleged sidetrack, the recall is part and parcel of the endemic problems of GM that were papered over by the bailout IMO.  That is hardly a unique view if one spends some time reading the financial and business press.  The seeds of GM's demise were allowed to remain in pursuit of the goal of bailing out a union that gives millions to the Democrats.  In the long term, a lot more jobs may be lost and people hurt because of that.

That was the point I was making and I'll stick to it.

Mainecoons touched on the "main" points. The auto industry was not facing a collapse. The other US (non-union) makers (Toyota, Nissan, VW, Mercedes.etc) were in good shape(and also Ford).

The bond holders that held 51 percent of Chrysler were robbed of their holdings, and awarded to the Union(51 petrcent), which controls Chrysler. Fiat is a minor shareholder.

The Gov't sold GM stock at a loss (10 billion)

A minor point here, Fiat completed the buyout of Chrysler by buying the UAW out.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/fiat-says-deal-to-buy-out-chrysler-complete/article16426712/

So here we have a deal where the taxpayers bailed out a private LBO that saddled Chrysler with a bunch of debt, allegedly secured bondholders were screwed while the LBO fraudsters made billions and finally the UAW got a payoff of more billions and now Chrysler is most assuredly a foreign-owned firm and in the hands of management that has already displayed a great deal of failure.

How one could be optimistic about the future of American jobs at Italian-owned and mismanaged Chrysler escapes me. But the UAW made out like bandits at the expense of the taxpayer, the legal bondholders and ultimately the country.

Thanks for the info on Fiat purchase.
Didn't Delphi employees lose their retirement because they were not union in all of this?

Yup.

But in 2009, Kane received word that, as part of the bailout to save General Motors, the pensions that he and 20,000 fellow Delphi salaried employees were promised would be reduced 30 to 70 percent.

Kane lost almost half his pension and now receives only $1,600 a month. He says it has been devastating. “It’s just a beat down, day in and day out, to struggle to get through.”

What makes it more difficult is that other Delphi workers who worked alongside Kane, members of the powerful United Auto Workers union, did not suffer the same fate. They are receiving their full pensions.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/04/14921926-delphi-retirees-say-obama-administration-betrayed-them

Pedro wrote:this crap has nothing to do with mexico and coon would be banned forthwith for his contribution if it were on the board where he is a mod-SNORK!

Looks like the coon has been banned from snivilization. Eh

Yeah as if I'm the first one to divert a thread on this board.

LOL