Solar Power

hound dog wrote:Referring to Mexico Pete´s post a few posts back:

That´s rich Pete. There you are, the enviromentalist living in your mansion up the hill surrounded by other reknowned conservationists and green weinies. OK, so you´re joking I hope. For those of you finding Pete´s sense of humor puzzling, be advised the discounts come with very modest electricity usage as most of us have found out the hard way. Ironically,.........................................
We finally got fed up and, facing the certainty of substantial electrical rate increases to come, went to E-Sun Energy and had solar electrical panels installed last spring. That cut our bill at Lakeside to under $20USD a month on average.

We are quite pleased with E-Sun´s service and recommend them to all readers as these solar panels are a good capital investment recovered over a few years according to your electrical usage and then you are free from the inevitable CFE rate increases over the years as you become an increasingly crotchety old goober and increasingly penurious. And if you don´t live that long you will no longer give a damn so it won´t go against your scorecard. After all, if you are providing much of your electrical power from the sun rather than the community grid, you are a true conservationist and will feel so good about yourself you may burst with pride. More or less.

I too am very happy with Esunenergy and my great return on investment. And with the photo-voltaic panels I need so little electricity from CFE, that I qualify for a large discount on the small amount that I do use. Looking at my Oct bill, the government paid 84.9% of said bill, leaving me only the final 15.1 %. I too keep my electrical bills very low. I pay maybe $10 to $30 US per 2 month billing period.

Of course, I also have solar panels to heat my water, meaning I've got to fill my natural gas tank only about once per year. How much gas per year? Well I just happened to put in 350 liters today to increase my 500 liter tank to 85% of capacity. Oh, Zeta Gas charged me $2,292.50 pesos (before tip) for the 350 liters of gas ($6.55 pesos per liter)

And John the reason our neighborhood is so much more green than yours is because our homes were designed with space set asside for solar panels. And of course the most important reason of all is we grow our own green tobacco.

Well, OK, Pete. You didn´t tell us you had resorted to solar panels as energy savers but I congratulate you on that decision. As you know from my above post, we did the same thing and are pleased with our decision. I see you are also growing your own "green tobacco". If you are growing your own weed and have a still, I must befriend you. Forgive me for having been so unapproachable in the past. Do I need to bring my own papers and jug when I come to visit?

Mexico Pete quote - "And John the reason our neighborhood is so much more green than yours is because our homes were designed with space set asside for solar panels. And of course the most important reason of all is we grow our own green tobacco."

And again before you spout off on my neighborhoodm which you know nothing about, 4 of our Homeowner's have already installed Solar Voltaic Panels on their roofs. There is actually plenty of room on our roofs for them. They are actually enjoying more benefit than you, by paying only about $ 5 a month for electricity.

Incidentally, one was installed by E Sun at a ridiculously high price. The other 2 homes used E2 Energias which cost about half the amount of E Sun and is a better panel.

joec wrote:Mexico Pete quote - "And John the reason our neighborhood is so much more green than yours is because our homes were designed with space set asside for solar panels. And of course the most important reason of all is we grow our own green tobacco."

And again before you spout off on my neighborhoodm which you know nothing about, 4 of our Homeowner's have already installed Solar Voltaic Panels on their roofs. There is actually plenty of room on our roofs for them. They are actually enjoying more benefit than you, by paying only about $ 5 a month for electricity.

Incidentally, one was installed by E Sun at a ridiculously high price. The other 2 homes used E2 Energias which cost about half the amount of E Sun and is a better panel.

Careful John different panels are like different cars. One panel may be better at picking up solar rays at an angle like morning or night. Another panel
may be more heat resistant which is an issue here. The charger/inverter panels can vary drastically with the features so comparing features watt to
watt may not be a good cost analysis. Some panels last longer. Some are plastic. Some are glass. I am not saying you are not right but features
and selection may raise costs.

Z

John, that was a joke about pot. You seem to be so sensitive about where you live. I'm sorry your house isn't selling. Remember you did get an offer. It was you who turned it down

Oh, and John do you have a DSLAM card? I bet most of us do here John. We get great benefits therefrom.

And as I have often posted both E Sun and E2 are great companies. John, maybe you could share with us the panels each company uses and why one of the companies is so much better than the other.

Oh and I'm going to paint my house green john so that you will be able to see I live in a green neighborhood. Have a great day John.

Zedinmexico wrote: Careful John different panels are like different cars. One panel may be better at picking up solar rays at an angle like morning or night. Another panel may be more heat resistant which is an issue here. The charger/inverter panels can vary drastically with the features so comparing features watt to watt may not be a good cost analysis. Some panels last longer. Some are plastic. Some are glass. I am not saying you are not right but features and selection may raise costs. Z

There's really very little difference in PV solar panels made by the major manufacturers. It's easy to compare their specs. Interviewing two or more local solar vendors will get you all the education you need to make an informed decision. The bottom line is cost per watt. It's NOT about technology.

Zedinmexico wrote:

joec wrote:Mexico Pete quote - "And John the reason our neighborhood is so much more green than yours is because our homes were designed with space set asside for solar panels. And of course the most important reason of all is we grow our own green tobacco."

And again before you spout off on my neighborhoodm which you know nothing about, 4 of our Homeowner's have already installed Solar Voltaic Panels on their roofs. There is actually plenty of room on our roofs for them. They are actually enjoying more benefit than you, by paying only about $ 5 a month for electricity.

Incidentally, one was installed by E Sun at a ridiculously high price. The other 2 homes used E2 Energias which cost about half the amount of E Sun and is a better panel.

Careful John different panels are like different cars. One panel may be better at picking up solar rays at an angle like morning or night. Another panel
may be more heat resistant which is an issue here. The charger/inverter panels can vary drastically with the features so comparing features watt to
watt may not be a good cost analysis. Some panels last longer. Some are plastic. Some are glass. I am not saying you are not right but features
and selection may raise costs.

Z

Both people who used E2 Energias panels studied both very closely and are extremely intelligent people. I'll go as far to say that one of them has more brains than most members of this forum based on what he did before coming here and the companies he owned in Cali.

If I were staying, I would have put E2 Energias panels on my house, for probably a cost of under $ 7,000.

David wrote:

Zedinmexico wrote: Careful John different panels are like different cars. One panel may be better at picking up solar rays at an angle like morning or night. Another panel may be more heat resistant which is an issue here. The charger/inverter panels can vary drastically with the features so comparing features watt to watt may not be a good cost analysis. Some panels last longer. Some are plastic. Some are glass. I am not saying you are not right but features and selection may raise costs. Z

There's really very little difference in PV solar panels made by the major manufacturers. It's easy to compare their specs. Interviewing two or more local solar vendors will get you all the education you need to make an informed decision. The bottom line is cost per watt. It's NOT about technology.

Three types last I looked Monocrystaline, Polycrystalline, and thin film. My plastic unisolar panels work better in Shadows and work better with sharp
low sky angles of the sun. Thin film can take heat but doesn't last as long. I can find advantages and disadvantages for each type. Cost for mainstream
panels may be the same but I find a big cost difference in controllers and inverters. You may be right in that all the local vendors sell the same technology
around here but that doesn't mean to me that one technology does all for everyone. For example lots of shadows you might want to look at a panel
that has more blocking diodes to allow the panel to funtion at a higher rate than other technologies. I admit my knowledge is a couple of years old.

Have things changed that much that we have one technology for panels now that owns the market for home use? I know I won't see any thin film
panels for home use as these are used in commercial use for panel farms.

What is going on in the mainstream controller inverter market?
Looking for info to catch up withg technology here. Any suggestions?

Thanks as I am getting ready to build a portable panel and inverter AC system to plug into wall and would like to know what is going on?

I have built three systems in the past one with old ARCO cut cylinder panels which ran until two years ago. A big 240w Kyrocera system
for my desert runner. Had to build that one with rubber mounts to allow the truck to move and the panel to stay still. Very interesting project
making a glass panel for an off road vehicle. Probably should have used flexible panels but I needed the power to run a vaccine fridge. I still
have my little 33w Unisolar/flex with my Morningstar controller. Indestructable is how I describe this setup.

Thanks
Z

joec wrote:

Zedinmexico wrote:

joec wrote:Mexico Pete quote - "And John the reason our neighborhood is so much more green than yours is because our homes were designed with space set asside for solar panels. And of course the most important reason of all is we grow our own green tobacco."

And again before you spout off on my neighborhoodm which you know nothing about, 4 of our Homeowner's have already installed Solar Voltaic Panels on their roofs. There is actually plenty of room on our roofs for them. They are actually enjoying more benefit than you, by paying only about $ 5 a month for electricity.

Incidentally, one was installed by E Sun at a ridiculously high price. The other 2 homes used E2 Energias which cost about half the amount of E Sun and is a better panel.

Careful John different panels are like different cars. One panel may be better at picking up solar rays at an angle like morning or night. Another panel
may be more heat resistant which is an issue here. The charger/inverter panels can vary drastically with the features so comparing features watt to
watt may not be a good cost analysis. Some panels last longer. Some are plastic. Some are glass. I am not saying you are not right but features
and selection may raise costs.

Z

Both people who used E2 Energias panels studied both very closely and are extremely intelligent people. I'll go as far to say that one of them has more brains than most members of this forum based on what he did before coming here and the companies he owned in Cali.

If I were staying, I would have put E2 Energias panels on my house, for probably a cost of under $ 7,000.

Can you tell me whose panels and controllers they use? Is E2 Energias a brand??

Any affordable plastic panels yet?? I am leary of moving glass panels for a portable system.

Z

I know a guy who had to install new panels after about 5 years. The sun kind of ate through them or something. So, how much of a cost saving is it if you have to replace the panels that often?

Our electric bill is usually about 3000 pesos every 2 months, as an example.

How long would you have to have the panels and all the other gizmo's which come with them in order to see a reasonable return on your investment?

Are they really 7,000 U.S.?

[quote=" Can you tell me whose panels and controllers they use? Is E2 Energias a brand?? Any affordable plastic panels yet?? I am leary of moving glass panels for a portable system.Z[/quote]

E2 Energias is the major solar vendor in the Guadalajara and Lakeside area. They use Sharp panels and Fronius inverters, both manufactured in the USA. I have had my system from E2 for over 2 years. The panels are very strong and faced with tempered glass. They're easy to move. If you wish contact information PM me.

E-raq wrote:Our electric bill is usually about 3000 pesos every 2 months, as an example. How long would you have to have the panels and all the other gizmo's which come with them in order to see a reasonable return on your investment? Are they really 7,000 U.S.?

Our CFE bill averaged $3400 Pesos 2 years ago, it now averages $200. The price of your system depends on the size you need to meet your average usage. The panels are guaranteed for 25 years. There's only one "gizmo" besides the panels which is the "inverter" that converts the DC electricity produced by the panels to the 120 volt AC required in your home. The inverter is guaranteed for 10 years. PM if you want contact info.

Zedinmexico wrote:I kinda hijacked the thread. I started a new one in tech on portable systems if
anyone wants to go and comment. Thank you David for E2 info I asked for I
know where they are now.

Z

E2 is in Guadalajara.

David wrote:

E-raq wrote:Our electric bill is usually about 3000 pesos every 2 months, as an example. How long would you have to have the panels and all the other gizmo's which come with them in order to see a reasonable return on your investment? Are they really 7,000 U.S.?

Our CFE bill averaged $3400 Pesos 2 years ago, it now averages $200. The price of your system depends on the size you need to meet your average usage. The panels are guaranteed for 25 years. There's only one "gizmo" besides the panels which is the "inverter" that converts the DC electricity produced by the panels to the 120 volt AC required in your home. The inverter is guaranteed for 10 years. PM if you want contact info.

My neighbors using E2 Energias panels at an installation cost of $ 8,900 US and $ 8,000 US respectively about 6 months ago went from using 5,000 - 6,000 pesos every two months to $ 5 a month.

John wrote"
My neighbors using E2 Energias panels at an installation cost of $ 8,900 US and $ 8,000 US respectively about 6 months ago went from using 5,000 - 6,000 pesos every two months to $ 5 a month."

John, I know of an installation made by Esun a few months ago that cost $7,000 US. But comparing prices is dangerous, because you could be comparing apples to oranges. Maybe one system that costs 20% more puts out twice the power.

Also, remember folks. If you were to use a 120 volt inverter as suggested above, you would have a hell of a time selling back electricity to CFE (feeding the grid during the day) Our voltage here is 127 +/- 10% per federal regulation.

When I originally got my inverter in 2007, it was only set at 120 volts. Before I could sell back to the grid they had to upgrade my "Out Back" inverter to Mexican standards.

What company did I get the equipment from? In those days there were no local companies and my dealer was from San Miguel. The folks from that company paid Jsun, then from Guadalajara to come out and fix said problem. He runs EsunEnergy.

Oh, and although Esun has offices in Guadalajara and PV, they are also located lakeside near Dominos Pizza, which is very handy.

When I wrote "Tech Talk" for the Guadalajara Reporter, I looked into both companies and found them both to be excellent. If you are interested in a system, why not solicit bids from those companies working in the area, I believe 3. That might be safer than getting your info from the "Experts" here

To learn more about eSun, look at the back page of today's Guadalajara Reporter or drop by their local office near Wal*Mart. Have an electric bill with you and get an estimate.

David wrote:

E-raq wrote:Our electric bill is usually about 3000 pesos every 2 months, as an example. How long would you have to have the panels and all the other gizmo's which come with them in order to see a reasonable return on your investment? Are they really 7,000 U.S.?

Our CFE bill averaged $3400 Pesos 2 years ago, it now averages $200. The price of your system depends on the size you need to meet your average usage. The panels are guaranteed for 25 years. There's only one "gizmo" besides the panels which is the "inverter" that converts the DC electricity produced by the panels to the 120+ volt AC required in your home. The inverter is guaranteed for 10 years. PM if you want contact info.

Both E2 and ESun provide the proper inverters set for the correct voltage. Anyone investigating PV solar should talk with both companies.

I can´t speak about E2 but here is my experience with E-Sun in Ajijic which I went with because it´s office is local and I wanted a local firm to harass if I had any problems. It turns out that was a good decision as CFE misread our new meter upon first reading and hugely overcharged us out of sequence, not out of any desire to do so but simply out of incompetence. My CFE and telephone bills are paid upon billing by BBVA Bancomer and once the bank has paid the bill no matter how wrong, CFE refuses to refund the overpayment immediately. Well, the E-Sun guys went to CFE and straightened them out and now we are receiving a refund for CFE´s overcharges by their not charging us anything for electricity until the complete overpayment has been refunded. Of course, since my CFE bill went from about $1,500 Pesos a month to about $100 Pesos a month on average, it may take us a long time to recover our money but I look at that overpayment being drizzled back to me each bi-monthly billing cycle as a banker would. A genuine asset classified as "Prepaid Electrical Services" which amortizes monthly. Had I used that money to buy an expensive dinner at a fine restaurant, it would be fertilizing the earth now so what the hell. I should have been an accountant.

Here is what´s important. When CFE screwed up their meter reading process and overcharged us, Ajijic based E-Sun went to bat for us at CFE and resolved the issue without our having to sweat out dealing with those CFE bureaucrats and that is what´s important here. It strikes me as important that you have a local firm adept at dealing with CFE and always there to come to your aid in the case of future problems. My wife speaks very good Spanish and can deal with CFE because she is erudite and stubborn as a mule but who wants to deal with that dreaded bureacracy in their latter years?

By the way, we have eight solar panels on our roof the cost of which appear to be in line with what the rest of you paid in your initial capital investments with either company spoken of above so I don´t get John´s proclamation that E-Suns capital costs are "outrageous" compared to the costs of the other company or companies. Whatever our initial capital costs, we are now paying less than $10USD a month for electricity instead of the, at least $130USD before the solar system. CFE rates for electricity which , in this area is supplied through fossil fuels, are going to go up and up ad nauseum. I´d rather pay God through the sun than CFE through increasingly scarce cured dinosaur dung. When the sun goes out so we all. When oil runs out, we simply have to dine by candlelight - with a bit of cognac to ease the pain.

E2 Energias has a long standing relationship with CFE and is able and willing to resolve issues with them. The fact that their HQ is in Guadalajara is of no consequence. E2 has local employees and facilities, just not an "office." I did my due diligence before choosing a PV vendor and E2 came out on top.

E Sun is the leading solar company in Mexico and lakeside is leading in solar power for the nation. Our CFE reader checked our meter last week and asked my husband if solar power really worked and didn't know why E Sun had installed the majority of the 400 units lakeside. 300 of those were installed by E Sun. disclaimer: I'll say give or take just in case the number is 299 or something.

John, I'm surprised at you...you always recommend the very best.

How long ago was the home w/ESUN installed? It's worth listening to the reason why one is better than the other but I don't think E2 is bad, my husband compared the 2 and we went with E Sun. Solar power is pretty cool stuff and there is some junk out there that you can't compare as apples with apples. The techie's know that. E Sun is definitely competitive with prices.

The numbers you quote are highly suspect. I believe that the two companies, E2 and ESun have roughly equal numbers of installations at Lakeside. E2 has a big advantage in Guadalajara and has installed the largest systems in Mexico. One of the reasons I chose E2 is because they are a bigger, more financially strong company. ESun is a major player in the solar market in Mexico but they are nowhere close to dominant. Both companies provide high quality system made by reputable manufacturers. The new buyer will not go wrong with either choice.

Guess David gets to do some research.

Chapalagringa wrote:E Sun is the leading solar company in Mexico and lakeside is leading in solar power for the nation. Our CFE reader checked our meter last week and asked my husband if solar power really worked and didn't know why E Sun had installed the majority of the 400 units lakeside. 300 of those were installed by E Sun. disclaimer: I'll say give or take just in case the number is 299 or something.

John, I'm surprised at you...you always recommend the very best.

How long ago was the home w/ESUN installed? It's worth listening to the reason why one is better than the other but I don't think E2 is bad, my husband compared the 2 and we went with E Sun. Solar power is pretty cool stuff and there is some junk out there that you can't compare as apples with apples. The techie's know that. E Sun is definitely competitive with prices.

The homeowner who installed E Sun did so approx 18 months ago, 14 panels - $ 16,000 US. I can find out coz they're good friends of ours. The two that installed E2 Enegias did so approx 7 months and 6 months ago as near as I can remember. Cost of $ 8,900 and $ 8,000 respectively.

Prices continue to come down for solar power and with the Peso above 12.5 it's even more attractive.

Chapalagringa, I know of what I speak. BTW, the CFE meter reader has no way of knowing which company (btw, there are 4 or more) installed the system.

I'll save you your homework. Only the Comision Federal can say who's leading in solar as they have all the stats. 6 months ago that was ESun. ESun says they have installed 3/4 of the systems lakeside.

The CFE guy specializes in checking if the solar meters are working...he takes it out of the wall to check...you'd think CFE would know how many solar meters it has in the area. You'd think ESun would know how many systems it's installed.

Is it good form to be posting on a public forum what your friends or neighbors spent on a home improvement? To me, that is kind of an invasion of their privacy!