Remember Pearl Harbor

My German would have been a lot better than it is now but the Nazis would have had their butts kicked out from most places eventually, it is the fate of empires, they rise and then fall...
No Soviet Union, no Israel and so on.
Fascinating subject to reflect upon.

I disagree that the USA had a desire to enforce "our own foreign hedgemony or economic Imperialism". These countries were rebuilt & given the power to govern because of the USA.

Really? Who's the biggest customer of Japan and Germany? Who's the biggest investor? Hmmm?

brigitte wrote:My German would have been a lot better than it is now but the Nazis would have had their butts kicked out from most places eventually, it is the fate of empires, they rise and then fall...
No Soviet Union, no Israel and so on.
Fascinating subject to reflect upon.

Of course there would not have been a state of Israel had the Nazi "final solution" been fully implemented.
I can't imagine how your family felt having their country occupied by Nazis,bet they were very happy when the allies showed up to liberate them.

[I can't imagine how your family felt having their country occupied by Nazis,bet they were very happy when the allies showed up to liberate them.
[/quote]

Some French were very happy and some were very unhappy.

There was this French actress who was brought up on trial after the war for collaberating with and fraternizing with the Nazis. When the court demanded a statement from her she replied, " My heart belongs to France but my ass is universal," Enough said.

Seis:

While Mao may not have been there to start the Cultural Revolution if the results of WWII had been different, I think I can say that most any dynamic personality could have pulled it off since the Chinese People were so fed up with General Chiang Kai-shek and his corrupt regime. I was a bit over two years old when we were chased out of Shanghai by Mao and have done a fair amount of reading on the topic in the years since. Our Chinese servants and those Chinese who worked with my father at Standard Vaccum Oil Company were pretty much in universal agreement that China needed a change and they thought Mao offered the best solution.

Actually my family was happy the war was over for many reasons..The occupation was rough because there was very little food , there were curfews and they were at the mercy of the gestapo arresting people and
at random and shooting 10 people for every German soldier killed by the resistance. But by far the biggest fear were the allies´ bombings.
Part of the country was destroyed to be saved and liberated..so it was a no win situation.
Everyone has the wonderful picture of Paris liberation or pictures of the Germans marching in Paris but the war was a whole lot more complicated than that and there were a lot of grey areas.
The Germans lived with the French, anyone with a house big enough was required to have soldiers living with the family.
I have never heard a bad story about the SS officers living at my grand-parents and one of them saved the family towards the end of the war: he commited suicide but left a note saying that the family had nothing to do with it.
The Germans were very disciplined and did not bother the people they occupied , they even helped them get more food and helped them in many other way. Of course this did not prevent them to kill 10 people for every soldier killed by the resistence or wiping out whole villages like Oradour if they supected any support to the resistence.
It was a complicated time and nothing was black and white: some French collaborated and worked for the Germans and some went underground and helped the Resistence and the majority tried to stay out of any problem.
Many families were divided and supported different sides. In my family my grand-father had fought under Petain during the First World War and to him Petain was a heroe. to his sons Petain was a traitor. My grandfather who owned a paint factory ended up in jail as the workers voted not to give the gazoline to the Germans and buried it . It mde him a resistent and he was lockup for the rest of the war. Meanwhile his son joined the Aliied Forces and Germans SS officers lived in his house...
Meanwhile the Allies were bombing many cities and killing a very large amount of civilians. More civilians died in that war than combatants.

No one likes being occupied everyone was happy to see the Germans go but everyone was also happy to see the closing of American bases.

By the way the Resistence and the French who shaved all the women who slept with the Germans, waited for the war to be over to do that. They were very quiet about it during the war.
I remember hearing about women having been "shaved " and to me as a little girl it made no sense. I just knew it was the worst thing you could say about someone.

Quoting Brigitte: "No one likes being occupied everyone was happy to see the Germans go but everyone was also happy to see the closing of American bases."

After being chased out of China when Mao took over, we immediately moved to Japan during the occupation. While I was lucky enough to realize an educational benefit from the Army School on the base in Yokohama, the Military Police scattered throughout Japan were a royal PITA interferring in the lives of American civilians over whom they had absolutely no power.

brigitte wrote:By the way the Resistence and the French who shaved all the women who slept with the Germans, waited for the war to be over to do that. They were very quiet about it during the war.

The women were probably just going along in order to get along.
Thanks for sharing your family's experiences.

Brigitte, that was facinating...thanks.

The women who slept with the Germans probably did it for a whole lot of different reasons.
First of all the soldiers were young, handsome, polite and more affluent than the population so right there there was temptation.
Many of the women probably felt flattered. and truely fell for some of the men.
There were many rationed products and the German had access to them so that probably was another reason.
German officers kept the entertainement business going at least in Paris , so there was a lot of fraternizing with them for business reasons.
and then where there are armies , there are whores so here you are.

Thanks to Brigitte & CheenaGringo for the personal accounts of history

sundown:

And your point is? I know my points were not directed to anything your said and I would doubt that Brigitte's were either. If your comments were meant as sarcasm, then why don't you just say so?

By the way, your new handle on TOB of Bourbonman may just explain some of your posts?

CheenaGriingo,
I did not mean sarcasm to you or Brigette, & I see no reason any person would. As stated , I apprciate your personal experiences in WW2

I am not on Chapala .Com
Viajero told the moderator that I advocated poisoning dogs which was a lie, and they banned me. If you are in doubt check my history on & you will find what I am telling you is true.

Sundown:

Right under my avitar, it indicates that I am 65 and therefore born in 1947. WWII is not any part of my experience. Now Mao taking over China and the occupation of Japan are within my scope of experience.

CheenaGringo wrote:Sundown:

Right under my avitar, it indicates that I am 65 and therefore born in 1947. WWII is not any part of my experience. Now Mao taking over China and the occupation of Japan are within my scope of experience.

Ain't it the truth my brother in law family escaped and moved to Seattle.
The last of the folks who left are dying and each time I go to a party fewer
folks are playing chinese dominoes. Each time I hear the rare village Chinese
language less and less as they become culturally more Seattle Asian and less
Village Chinese. It is actually sad as the language is dying in Seattle. It is very
unusual for a white family to be accepted into a Chinese family but ours is for
some strange reason.

Z

sundown wrote:

I am not on Chapala .Com
Viajero told the moderator that I advocated poisoning dogs which was a lie, and they banned me.

That's too funny,just go back and read your posts on the "barking dog thread"you got yourself banned all by yourself.LOL

My posts on the "Barking Dog" thread were, aftter the neighbors would not quite the dog was to use firecrackers to quiet the dog & awaken the
neighbors. Also another person said to use a water pistol & I suggested a little amonia with the water. This is used by many trainers to train animals.

After I was banned I never told anyone & later on this website you made the statement about the poisoning of dogs, then I knew who was resonsible for the lie.

Here is my post

Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:11 PM

Adopt the dog & then take to the shelter OR
Get a good supply of big firecrackers & when the dog begins use them, let the owners know why you are using them.

The post in question was deleted by the moderators. It heavily implied poisoning.

sundown wrote:Here is my post

Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:11 PM

Adopt the dog & then take to the shelter OR
Get a good supply of big firecrackers & when the dog begins use them, let the owners know why you are using them.

Nice try pal,check out the "got me banned" thread.
I also enjoyed your post on this forum where you stated that you bribed some Guadalajara cops to release your wife after they supposedly arrested her for prostitution,want me to dig that one up as well?
You're a piece of work...

Wow I go away for a couple of days and one page on “remember our fallen” turns into a four page history lesson on greed verses evil with a little "got me banned" tossed in.

sparks wrote:

tictoc wrote:>>>> I agree with you, wars are fought for money (and religion). And without money you can't have freedom,

Money doesn't give you freedom and religion takes it away ... the world upside down

I was -2 at the time so feel no guilt

I never said money will give you freedom. I said, “I believe that you cannot have freedom without having money”. Ans I two believe religion removes ones choices.
I agree that the world is upside down. When we stop giving millions of dollars to people who can place a ball in a specific place for our amusement and start giving it to those who risk there lives every day for our benefit, only then will the world start to be right

seisdedos wrote:

tictoc wrote:

seisdedos wrote:Imperial powers sending their young men to either protect or procure empires. The whole "protecting our freedom" bullshit is tiresome. Wars are fought for one reason, money.

I agree with you, wars are fought for money (and religion). And without money you can't have freedom, at least not in this world IMO. You can call it what you want but if you (or those who would fight for YOU) don't defend your freedom’s (money) you won't have any!!!

What freedom's (sic) exactly were we fighting for? Japan had no desire nor the capability of denying Americans their freedom.

Seisdedos, I agree with most of your points and look forward to meeting you in person when I finally make it down to Ajijic. I will answerer your question in a very simple way. Japan did have the desire and capability of denying Americans there freedoms and they exercised there desires and capabilities on December 7th 1941. I’m not going to debate the right and wrong of what they did verses what we did. I’m only going to say that Japan deprived thousands of American citizens; Men, Women, and Children of there very first right (freedom) given to ALL men (women) of the United States. They did so willingly and with out care for age or sex. The fact is thousands of Men and Women gave there lives that tragic day. My hope is that people will put as much passion into remembering them for WHO they were, as they have into this forum and topic!

Viajero
Dig up all of the truths you please. It may be a change in your life to know some truths.

Troll.

"...Seisdedos, I agree with most of your points and look forward to meeting you in person when I finally make it down to Ajijic...."

Nobody meets Seisdedos. Ever. Unless you are logging in the Chiapas hills. Bring a sharpened machete.