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Ayotzinapa Students Update

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Post by Smartalex on Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:25 am

If you were hoping for some clarification by the independent human rights investigation into the killing of the 43 Ayotzinapa students...that didn't happen. In a 550-page report, the investigating commission questions the government's version of the event and presents a highly speculative theory that the students may have been killed after commandeering a bus that happened to be carrying a shipment of heroin destined for the U.S.

Here's a news story from the L.A. Times...
New probe: Mexican government was wrong about what happened to 43 missing students
http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-probe-mexico-43-missing-students-20150906-story.html

And here's a more detailed account from BBC Mundo...
México: informe de expertos desmiente la versión oficial de que los estudiantes de Ayotzinapa fueron incinerados
http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias/2015/09/150906_mexico_informe_expertos_giei_cidh_estudiantes_ayotzinapa_jp
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Post by Smartalex on Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:47 pm

DNA analysis performed by the University of Innsbruck has identified the remains of a second victim, further corroborating the government's story of what happened to the missing students. This comes on top of a report by an international human rights commission, which claimed to  discredit the government's story, and a piece of crap journalism written by Anabel Hernandez and published in Proceso, meant to undermine the government's version of events. From Mexico News Daily...

DNA tests identify 2nd Ayotzinapa victim
http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/dna-tests-identify-2nd-ayotzinapa-victim/
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Post by Smartalex on Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:49 pm

Gildardo Lopez Astudillo was arrested in Taxco yesterday. Lopez is identified as a Guerreros Unidos hitman who may have ordered the deaths of the students. We'll see what he has to say.
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Post by brigitte on Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:49 am

I do not think there is any doubt that the students were killed and cremated and probably not in the dump, I think the doubts are about the role of the police and army in the massacre and the covering up.

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Post by Smartalex on Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:15 am

Gildardo Lopez Astudillo, who was arrested in Taxco last Tuesday, has confessed that he ordered the students killed and incinerated, thinking they were members of a rival cartel. Long considered the "missing link" in the government's version of events, his confession corroborates testimony from the gangster soldiers who were arrested earlier. Lopez also named nine mayors who have helped and protected his own criminal organization. From Excelsior...

'El Gil': yo los mandé quemar. López Astudillo pidió no dejar rastro
http://www.excelsior.com.mx/nacional/2015/09/19/1046516
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Post by brigitte on Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:45 am

Yes but where and how did they dispose of them? The basurero is not a likely story for a cremation. They were killed and cremated so nothing new since two of the remains were identified out of the ashes..This guy sold out 9 alcaldes so more arrest it seems it will never end.

Funny we were in Iguala a few months before the whole affair and we thought it looked like a nice quiet little town..I guess you just never know, thank God we did not retire there.

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Post by Smartalex on Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:55 am

Don't know if you have ever seen this video presentation from the federal prosecutor. It includes eyewitness accounts and reenactments. I have read the conspiracy theories and see nothing of substance to dispute the prosecutor's version of events.

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Post by Playaboy on Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:55 pm

Were the students burned alive?  Did they hack them apart?  Make a fresh batch of pozole?  Does it matter how the students were killed?  Or why they were killed?

Hopefully, they were put on their knees and mercifully got a .45 to the back of the head.

The scapegoats will be paraded before the public.   Nobody of any importance is going to be held accountable.  9 out of 10 murders go unsolved.

This is just like the 100,000+++ others murdered  or missing during the last 8 years.  Bottom lime is they are all gone.

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Post by slainte39 on Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:28 pm

Playaboy, you are usually pretty sensible, but that is one sick post.
There will never be anybody of enough importance held accountable to satisfy you conspiracy theorists.

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Post by viajero on Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:51 pm

Playaboy wrote:Were the students burned alive?  Did they hack them apart?  Make a fresh batch of pozole?  Does it matter how the students were killed?  Or why they were killed?

Hopefully, they were put on their knees and mercifully got a .45 to the back of the head.

The scapegoats will be paraded before the public.   Nobody of any importance is going to be held accountable.  9 out of 10 murders go unsolved.

This is just like the 100,000+++ others murdered  or missing during the last 8 years.  Bottom lime is they are all gone.
I would never attempt to defend the Mexican justice system..but they have arrested the mayor,his wife,the chief of police,other bad cops and cartel members related to this case.
That would seem to me that they are making some progress on the case.
What baffles me is what could possibly be the motive for the massacre.

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Post by brigitte on Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:48 pm

There is a theory that that the 5th bus contained drug and if that is true it could explain that the cartel thought they were from a rival gang or that they were after the drug money,,although, Normalistas can be seen on a regular basis, getting buses is what they do and it does not explain why the police and the army did not help them but seem to have attack some of them..There must have been total confusion ot someone set up someone else.

The massacre just does not make sense and wanting to make all traces of them does not make sense as the cartels leaves bodies all over the place and they do not seem to care if people are identified or not later on..

I

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Post by slainte39 on Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:52 pm

What has happened to the theory that the students were interrupting or disturbing some event of the mayor's wife and she solicited the local corrupt police and her family drug connections to carry out the massacre.
As viajero pointed out, the Normalistas don't have a lot of friends in government, but
Guerrero was a PRD state, and probably as close as any political party to the students.
Too many people involved, both  before and after the crime, to be kept a secret forever.


So the students might have hijacked a bus not knowing that it was carrying a shipment of drugs? Another interesting theory.

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Post by brigitte on Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:18 pm

That is a theory because they were 5 buses involved but the fifth bus was overlooked by the investigators.
Who knows if that rumor is correct but that one would make more sense as it would have given  the cartels a reason to be pissed off and to kill the students.
The other theory about the maire´s wife giving a speech does not make sense, I read somewhere that the speech was over by the time the whole mess happen also it would not make sense to order the massacre if you are looking to be elected.

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Post by Smartalex on Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:42 pm

The mayor and his wife have been in prison for a number of months. Although they are charged with lots of things, including murder, racketeering and money laundering, neither of them has specifically been charged in the case of the missing students. There is indeed a big hole in the government's version of events: Who ordered the police to attack the students in the first place?
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Post by brigitte on Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:53 pm

By the way did they ever find or arrest the chief of police of Iguala?

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Post by Smartalex on Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:06 pm

Brigitte, I was looking for that information earlier today. I found news reports of his arrest but no follow-up information. I'll poke around later tonight to see what I can find.

In the meantime, the new federal prosecutor, Arely Gomez, has reopened the investigation based upon the criticisms in the report by the human rights commission.
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Post by brigitte on Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:01 pm

It is good that they reopened the the investigation but why did they screw it up to start with..no Very Happy Very Happy w they have to come up with another story.

It seems that he would have some explanations about the police attacking the students..and maybe he has no explanations.

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Post by slainte39 on Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:34 am

brigitte wrote:It is good that they reopened the the investigation but why did they screw it up to start with..no Very Happy  Very Happy w they have to come up with another story.

It seems that he would have some explanations about the police attacking the students..and maybe he has no explanations.


He is a she........the new prosecutor.

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Post by Smartalex on Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:42 am

As promised, I poked around the Internet looking for information on the Iguala police chief but couldn't find much. The assistant police chief was arrested in May and sent to prison. A representative of the families of the students was allowed to see his declaration. Apparently, he had nothing new to add or we would have heard about it from the families.

The police chief of Iguala at the time of the killing of the students is identified as Felipe Flores Vazquez. He may still be a fugitive since I could find no news report of his arrest. Perhaps the prosecutor needs his testimony in order to bring formal charges against the mayor and his wife for their roles in the massacre.
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Post by brigitte on Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:28 am

yes I did not remember if they had caught the chief of police , maybe he is on the run and maybe they will find him in a grave somewhere. If I remember correctly he was not in love with the mayor and his wife. Anyways it seems that he would be an interesting person to question.


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Post by Playaboy on Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:19 am

slainte39 wrote:Playaboy, you are usually pretty sensible, but that is one sick post.
There will never be anybody of enough importance held accountable to satisfy you conspiracy theorists.

Slainte, you are 100% correct.  My post was very SICK.  The whole situation is SICK.  On web boards we talk about the many incidents like this as if it is a murder mystery story or CSI TV show.  Sadly, all to often, the SICK is very real in Mexico.  

The Ayotzinapa student story has been manufactured and controlled from the beginning.  Look at all the theories bandied about.  The wife of the Mayor ordered it, the Mayor ordered it, the Army took the kids away, the Federales arrested them and turn them over to the cartel,  2 flunkies were paraded before the cameras telling the world we burned them in the garbage dump, a cartel hit man orchestrated the whole scenario, and now we have the newly found "5th bus with the planted drugs".  

With the exception of the garbage dump. all these theories are nice and sanitized.  

All of these stories to keep the public from knowing the real truth.  The people with power are very intelligent. They know the truth.  

I believe the true story would come straight from our worst nightmares. These kids died a horrific death.  I won't spell out all the sick ways again but we all know that I didn't make up those sick ways to kill someone.  

As usual in Mexico, people get arrested, put in jail with no public trial, and when things quiet down all is forgotten.

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Post by slainte39 on Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:51 pm

"Make a fresh batch of pozole" is what I was specifically alluding to.

There are many theories advanced by reporters and various citizens, other than the official version. Likewise with the assassination of JFK. That doesn't mean that one of them is or isn't correct. 
Since you don't believe the official version or any other published theory, what is your belief of the series of events leading up to and after their disappearance. I wasn't there and witnessed nothing and have to rely on reports/aka  "opinions" all over the place.

It is a murder case, and sometimes in situations like this, you have think logically, and not be governed by emotion.

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Post by Playaboy on Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:26 am

I don't believe any version of events or I believe all the versions put forth.  Does it matter which version?  With the 100,000+ murders and disappeared in this country, we have heard all these stories in one form or another for years.

Unlike many of the other mass murders and disappeared that are common in Mexico, this event has struck a cord with people.  The story has stuck around for a year and has some legs with all the differing theories put forth.  I could write out my own theory of the events, very MEDEVIL, very SICK, based on true stories in Mexico, and it would have the same credibility as many of the others.

Here is what I KNOW happened; 43 young adults vanished on that Sept night a year ago never to be seen again. Their grieving families search for answers and look for a finality that may never come.

The rest is just banter.

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Post by Smartalex on Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:28 pm

brigitte wrote:By the way did they ever find or arrest the chief of police of Iguala?

The federal prosecutor's office has offered rewards of up to 2.5 million pesos for information leading to the arrest of the former police chief, a local judge and three members of the Guerreros Unidos. So I guess this clarifies the police chief's legal status...yes, he is still a fugitive.
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Post by brigitte on Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:12 pm

I hope he is still alive..

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