The Value of Video

Yet again I read another news story about how video was taken and showed the police were in the wrong, again. I am convinced that the use of video to record incidents that occur involving police, no matter what country is involved, gives both parties the ability to prove their side of any story.
I encourage everyone to use video when encountering any police activity, whether you are directly involved or a witness, it may assist the person being charged or the police officer by giving a true indication of the actual events that occurred. It is like having a witness in your pocket. It is your right to video record anything you want, no matter what anyone or any police may tell you. If a police tells you to stop recording then that is an excellent indication he is in the wrong and does not want his behavior seen by others, keep recording and politely tell him to call his supervisor to the scene if he has a problem with your recording the events.
This may just result in a higher quality of police work in our area.

Back when digital video was just coming in and the cameras were horrendously expensive I was assisting at the scene of a double fatal collision on a country road. Naturally, there were officers on point duty to divert traffic until the investigation was complete. I noticed some sort of commotion involving one of the guys on point duty - there was a vehicle stopped in front of him and the occupant was standing in the roadway taking video with his brand new, expensive digital video camera and he had continued even after the point guy ordered him to stop. This was an extreme scene and no one would want video of the carnage getting into the public. (There is a reason tarps are put up at such.) I walked over and had a word with the guy and confirmed that he had been shooting for five minutes or more. He was a little disgruntled when I seized his expensive camera as evidence under the Coroner's Act  (pretty broad powers granted to police under that).

He did get his camera back - two years later.

Sorry Dogperson, I disagree. In Mexico things work a little differently than NOB. Video taping a police event could result in the loss of your camera, a beating or much, much worse. Personally I wouldn't mess with the police down here and I wouldn't recommend anyone else to do so.

With crazed drivers in both Russia and China, a new market niche has been created for Dash Cams. Many of these cameras have dual cameras to shoot not only forward but to the rear and are really quite inexpensive. In most cases they are set to record anytime there is an impact and usually have a feature that "write protects" segments that involve a crash and can be used to prove fault.

CanuckBob wrote:Sorry Dogperson, I disagree. In Mexico things work a little differently than NOB. Video taping a police event could result in the loss of your camera, a beating or much, much worse. Personally I wouldn't mess with the police down here and I wouldn't recommend anyone else to do so.

Totally agree!

Video recording the police in action in this country could very well buy you an a$$ kicking, loss of camera, and a possible overnight stay compliments of the ayuntamiento. You may get lucky and they may ask you to stop before those events happen.

Obstruction of justice can be pretty loosely defined on the scene when the cops are all jacked up. Whether they are in the right or not.

Axixic....
In most places in the world, including Mexico, doesn't the police have control of crime or other public safety scenes?  
That is why the areas are taped off or access not allowed by instruction. Volatile footage could be used in all sorts of surreptitious ways.
I agree the downside of such behaviour far outweighs the upside.
Now a hidden camera might work....maybe.

I can not understand why anyone who has lived down here for longer than 15 minutes would recommend video recording the police at all--much less when the police tell you to stop. Then to add that it is your "right" and you should demand the police officer call his supervisor is, well, insane. As CBob wisely suggested: Do not mess with the police.

CheenaGringo wrote:With crazed drivers in both Russia and China, a new market niche has been created for Dash Cams.  Many of these cameras have dual cameras to shoot not only forward but to the rear and are really quite inexpensive.  In most cases they are set to record anytime there is an impact and usually have a feature that "write protects" segments that involve a crash and can be used to prove fault.

Car crashes are one thing, police actions another.
In many countries, if not all, Hertz supplies a camera with the car, for accident photos, when you rent the car.

That's right, on a public safety scene the guy with the gun wins.

Most times the cops are great to work with but occasionally there is a bad one who thinks he's badder than everyone else on scene. They are having trouble now in San Diego with a rogue California Highway Patrol cop who has arrested and taken to jail a couple of firefighters right on scene of freeway crashes. In one case, this cop told the FF to move the engine as it was blocking a lane the FF refused saying he was purposely blocking the lane to protect the people working the crash. That's what fire does! It's one of their jobs on scene to strategically park the engine to protect the scene from some drunk who is attracted to the lights and blows right into the scene killing a few patients, paramedics, and firefighters.

This whole thing is going to end up eventually playing out badly for the cop when all the hearings are over. Imagine, the medics not having the FF who was just arrested to do CPR on the pt while they drive to the hospital or having the engine out of service because the only qualified driver was handcuffed sitting in the back of the squad car! Ooo, the lawyers will love that.

Simply a public safety pissing contest.

slainte39 wrote:Axixic....
In most places in the world, including Mexico, doesn't the police have control of crime or other public safety scenes?  
That is why the areas are taped off or access not allowed by instruction. Volatile footage could be used in all sorts of surreptitious ways.
I agree the downside of such behaviour far outweighs the upside.
Now a hidden camera might work....maybe.

I can't speak to "most places in the world" but that is/was the case in Canada.

Authority comes to the police from all sorts of sources and a smart officer is aware of the authority he/she possesses. They are just further tools to carry around on your belt and use as required.

dogperson wrote: I am convinced that the use of video to record incidents that occur involving police, no matter what country is involved, gives both parties the ability to prove their side of any story.

Even Iran, North Korea, or Taliban controlled areas of Afghanistan.    

Trailrunner wrote:
Most times the cops are great to work with but occasionally there is a bad one who thinks he's badder than everyone else on scene.  They are having trouble now in San Diego with a rogue California Highway Patrol cop who has arrested and taken to jail a couple of firefighters right on scene of freeway crashes.

Sigh...Cowboys. That's what we used to call them and they can get everyone in a jam. You can usually tell who they are - they wear their black leather gloves ALL THE TIME.

Lady Otter Latté wrote:I can not understand why anyone who has lived down here for longer than 15 minutes would recommend video recording the police at all--much less when the police tell you to stop. Then to add that it is your "right" and you should demand the police officer call his supervisor is, well, insane. As CBob wisely suggested: Do not mess with the police.

Video taping the police involved in any illegal activity with the wrong people will likely result in a disappearance and we will have to read about another gringo missing in Mexico. In Mexico it is generally best TO MIND ONES OWN BUSINESS.......IMO.

Axixic wrote: Sigh...Cowboys. That's what we used to call them and they can get everyone in a jam. You can usually tell who they are - they wear their black leather gloves ALL THE TIME.

Yep, cowboys, they're scary.  hah  Yeah on the gloves and don't forget the basket-weave black belts and steel-toe boots with jeans when OFF duty.  Hey, 'ya never know when you might have to kick in a windshield!  Oh yeah, and scanners in their private cars.   

Took some time to find it but here is a video that appears to have escalated the situation between a driver and the police in San Miguel de Allende just over a year ago:

CheenaGringo wrote:Took some time to find it but here is a video that appears to have escalated the situation between a driver and the police in San Miguel de Allende just over a year ago:

i remember this but dogperson is braver[SNORK!] than we are, no doubt, and will stand up for his/her 'RIGHTS'just like the guy in the vid[DOUBLE SNORK!].

Really hard to judge the video without knowing what is going on (or went on prior to the camera being turned on) but I will make two observations:

- The vehicle occupants ended up still in possession of the video and I think it would have been obvious it was being recorded so I assume the police weren't worried about it - otherwise we would never get to see it. And,

- Those cops need better training - taking a guy's hands off a steering wheel is dead easy if you know what you're doing. And grabbing and pulling ain't it.

It looks like they were two local law students who apparently were stopped for no particular reason and were sticking up for their rights,one of the cops grabbed the driver by the balls and another one with gun in hand threatened the person filming it,the conversation between the participants is interesting.

What about dashcams. Does anyone have those?

Dash cams were mentioned earlier in this thread. Slainte commented:
"Car crashes are one thing, police actions another."

Axixic wrote:Really hard to judge the video without knowing what is going on (or went on prior to the camera being turned on) but I will make two observations:

- The vehicle occupants ended up still in possession of the video and I think it would have been obvious it was being recorded so I assume the police weren't worried about it - otherwise we would never get to see it. And,

- Those cops need better training - taking a guy's hands off a steering wheel is dead easy if you know what you're doing. And grabbing and pulling ain't it.

why don't you offer your services as a trainer?

miendo wrote:What about dashcams. Does anyone have those?

Many police forces NOB have them installed.

If you are going to tape, use a GOOD camera and tape from a distance....

miendo:

We have been using our version of a dash cam - Flip HD rigged to a suction cup mount:
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It is limited by the fact that it only holds 2 hours of video but isn't designed for impact activation or GPS stamping.  But we are more interested in filming traffic conditions and the surrounding scenery.  

I have been watching the dash cam market and even tried one of the higher rated ones last fall.  Some are dirt cheap but are limited by the quality of lens and the number of MegaPixels.  The video definition immediately in front or to the rear of the vehicle is decent but beyond that the quality washes out and the scenery blurs.  Some are using GoPro cameras for this purpose but I sure as heck wouldn't leave one in the high heat generated around the windshield.  We are starting to see some higher quality dash cams with good lenses and the ability to record 8 to 12 hours of video.  Garmin not only is producing dash cams but they are also just introducing integrated GPS and camera units.
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cool thing about flip HD is that it is in "facebook" & "youtube" format, uploading is fast and easy...