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Surge protector repair Empty Surge protector repair

Post by SunsetKid on Sat May 19, 2012 1:40 pm

Anyone Lakeside repair surge protectors. Getting tired of replacing them
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Surge protector repair Empty Re: Surge protector repair

Post by Jim W on Sat May 19, 2012 1:59 pm

Servicio Beltran
Av. Madero #467-A
Chapala
1/2 block from bus station
765-3949, 766 4586
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Post by ferret on Sat May 19, 2012 2:05 pm

If the outlet that the surge protector is plugged into is not grounded then the surge has no where to go and fries the protector.

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Post by sparks on Sat May 19, 2012 7:43 pm

There are so many types of surge protectors it's had to say. The cheap ones it's just one chip that blows (if there is no/or is ground). Assuming this is for computer equip better to buy a UPS that uses a transformer ... and a battery that avoids sudden shut downs. Probably $1000 pesos

If just for your fridge ... those $300mx boxes work but still need a ground
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Post by SunsetKid on Sat May 19, 2012 8:34 pm

So far all I get are generalizations about what will work here and no definite answers. So what really works?
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Post by Jim W on Sat May 19, 2012 8:39 pm

Simple...make sure your plugs are grounded, get it fixed at suggested locations, or go back to Chapala .com for help LMAO One of us is dumber than a post....You have been given the name of company for repair, you have been given grounding advice....What else can members provide?
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Surge protector repair Empty Re: Surge protector repair

Post by westom on Mon May 21, 2012 10:30 am

SunsetKid wrote:Anyone Lakeside repair surge protectors. Getting tired of replacing them
If the protector is properly sized and properly earthed, then it does not fail. Take a $4 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. Sell it for $25 or $80 only because it is called a surge protector. Then when it fails, a naive consumer will recommend it and buy more.

Appliances already contain serious protection. Your concern is a rare surge (maybe once every seven years) that can overwhelm that protection. Surges too tiny to harm the appliance will easily destroy a grossly undersized protector. Then profits increase when the consumer recommends that grossly undersized product.

Facilities that can not have damage even to the protector, instead, earth a 'whole house' protector. Earth, because protection is always about where energy dissipates. A short connection to earth (ie 'less than 10 feet') necessary for low impedance. And a protector rated at least 50,000 amps. Because a typical lighting strike is 20,000 amps.

More responsible manufacturers provide these. Including Intermatic, General Electric, Square D, Siemens, ABB, Leviton, and Cutler-Hammer.

Effective protectors even connect direct lightning strikes to earth. And remain functional. Effective solutions are not profit centers that are grossly undersized. So that naive consumers will recommend them. But most important. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Effective protectors have a dedicated wire for the always required low impedance (ie ‘less than 10 foot’) connection to earth.


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Surge protector repair Empty Re: Surge protector repair

Post by Zedinmexico on Mon May 21, 2012 4:35 pm

westom wrote:
SunsetKid wrote:Anyone Lakeside repair surge protectors. Getting tired of replacing them
If the protector is properly sized and properly earthed, then it does not fail. Take a $4 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. Sell it for $25 or $80 only because it is called a surge protector. Then when it fails, a naive consumer will recommend it and buy more.

Appliances already contain serious protection. Your concern is a rare surge (maybe once every seven years) that can overwhelm that protection. Surges too tiny to harm the appliance will easily destroy a grossly undersized protector. Then profits increase when the consumer recommends that grossly undersized product.

Facilities that can not have damage even to the protector, instead, earth a 'whole house' protector. Earth, because protection is always about where energy dissipates. A short connection to earth (ie 'less than 10 feet') necessary for low impedance. And a protector rated at least 50,000 amps. Because a typical lighting strike is 20,000 amps.

More responsible manufacturers provide these. Including Intermatic, General Electric, Square D, Siemens, ABB, Leviton, and Cutler-Hammer.

Effective protectors even connect direct lightning strikes to earth. And remain functional. Effective solutions are not profit centers that are grossly undersized. So that naive consumers will recommend them. But most important. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Effective protectors have a dedicated wire for the always required low impedance (ie ‘less than 10 foot’) connection to earth.


Please note what applies to an appliance does not apply to consumer electronics. Unless you have a whole house surge protector it would be better to continue to use
over 1000 joules rating units with ground test light and MOV test light. In my 22 years working in the electronics business nothing is designed as poster described
above. Consumer electronics assume quality stable power especially US spec stuff. Yes Commercial and HD stuff is different but low cost electronics is just that low
cost and fragile. Yes it takes 20,000 amps to disapate a lighting strike and this is done by proximity shunts and seperate ground wires which keep it from anywhere
in your house. Yes most of the surge protectors sold down here are garbage (last $25 one had neutral and ground reversed) but a good one can be purchased for
around $30USD and I consider it a good investment and replacing the MOV's when they fail is not big deal if you know what to replace. No I don't do anything for
my fridge but I sure do surge protect and transformer based filtering my DVD player, TV, and other fragile electronics.

Z

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Post by Zedinmexico on Mon May 21, 2012 4:43 pm

ferret wrote:If the outlet that the surge protector is plugged into is not grounded then the surge has no where to go and fries the protector.


Pay attention to what the man said which is why I say a ground light is required on a surge protector.

When I checked my house I found 1 plug with neutral and ground reversed (how would you like the outside of the fridge to go hot!!), 8 plugs
with no ground hooked up, No ground rod in house and my favorite a seperate run ground wire running back to the box that had no ground
hooked up. Switched all the 3 prongs back to 2 prongs and after a new ground rod and wire (be sure to masonry up the wire or it will be stolen)
and two new grounded circuits all is well finally. I wouldn't assume anything when seeing a three prong socket.

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Post by westom on Mon May 21, 2012 8:16 pm

Zedinmexico wrote: Unless you have a whole house surge protector it would be better to continue to use
over 1000 joules rating units with ground test light and MOV test light.
Its "ground test" light only reports some "safety" ground failures. Surge protection is about energy absorbed harmlessly in "earth" ground. That ground test light will report same with earth ground installed or removed. Safety ground and earth ground are electrically different. Protection is about earth ground; not safety ground.

Its "MOV test" light does not report on MOV integrity. It only reports on a thermal fuse. In a sixth picture, all MOVs were removed. Its "MOV test" light said the protector was OK:
(Do to restrictions, you must reconstruct this URL)
http colon slash slash www dot zerosurge dot com slash technical-info/truth-about-movs
One leg of each MOV has been cut and there is therefore no protection, but "Protection Working" LED continues to glow green.

Those lights report only some types of failures. And not about what actually provides protection - single point earth ground. An effective protector would not have a 'ground light' and should not trip that 'MOV light'.

The MOV light only reports when a protector was grossly undersized for the event.

Destructive surges (ones that overwhelm protection in any appliance including consumer electronics, GFCIs, dimmer switches, smoke detecteors, etc) can be hundreds of thousands of joules. A protector of hundreds of joules simply fails catastrophically. Disconnects MOVs as fast as possible to avert a potenial fire. Leaves the surge connected to electronics. If not disconnected fast enough, catastrophic MOV failure may create a house fire (as demonstrated by above pictures). But the appliance (ie consumer electronics) must protect itself.

Protection is always about where hundreds of thosands of joules are absorbed. Always. To avert a protector generated fire, an informed homeowners can earth a 'whole house' protector. One 'whole house' solution (that typically costs tens or 100 times less money) is proven by over 100 years of science and experience.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

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Post by Jim W on Mon May 21, 2012 9:04 pm

Tolooo funny ...guy has no clue...You and all have offered solutions
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Post by viajero on Tue May 22, 2012 1:08 pm

I think that if I have any questions regarding electronics issues in the future I'll be asking Westom for advice.
Thanks for your input Westom and welcome to the forum.

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Post by Zedinmexico on Tue May 22, 2012 1:44 pm

Sorry Westom those were the biggest piece of shit surge protectors I have
seen and you should have mentioned this website is advertising for them
as they make and sell surge protectors. They are not saying surge protectors
don't work as Westom implies they are saying the cheap shit doesn't which
multiple people have said. Many companies make good quality equipment
that is helpful if not perfect as saving electronic gear.

Hurumph

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Post by cane on Tue May 22, 2012 7:22 pm

If you have your own house buy your own transformer.Eh

and also find out how to provide a ground when there is no rain for nine months.

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Post by ferret on Tue May 22, 2012 9:12 pm

cane wrote:If you have your own house buy your own transformer.Eh

and also find out how to provide a ground when there is no rain for nine months.

Buying your own transformer isn't a bad idea. Just be aware that CFE won't repair or replace it if it's not theirs. You're on your own.
Dry soil is a poor conductor of electricity...guess you could just regularly water the area where the ground is located.
Or... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ufer_ground

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Post by westom on Tue May 22, 2012 9:20 pm

cane wrote: ... also find out how to provide a ground when there is no rain for nine months.
The driest soil is still an electrical conductor. Dryer earth means an earth ground must be better (ie larger). Some facilities surround each building with an earth ground loop because only earth ground defines protection. To make the driest earth conductive.

Or one learns from people who actually do this stuff; not from advertising myths.

If I was politically correct, then I would stop writing. But I am not politically correct. Instead I am honest and an engineer who actually did this stuff. A protector promoted by scammers and recommended by the most easily scammed have no earth ground AND do not discuss earthing. Posts from the most easily scammed (ie those educated by advertising) are quickly obvious. They post no numbers. They deny 100 years of well proven science. And only reiterate what is found in advertising.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. A protector either connects hundreds of thousands of joules 'low impedance' (and harmlessly) too earth. Or only ineffective (high profit) protection exists. An expression 'low impedance' mean numbers. Not subjective claims. Numbers. Those who recommend scams avoid the expression 'low impedance'.

Why were we doing this stuff generations (not just decades) ago? Because what does effective protection was understood that long ago. Was always about earth ground. Others so easily manipulated by advertising will, instead and foolishly, recommend a protector that does not have the 'less that 3 meter' connection to earth. Because advertising or hearsay can easily recommend a scam.

Science from over 100 years ago was obvious. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Well proven solutions will say where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Only those who want to be scammed ignore the numbers. And recommend some miracle plug-in solution.

When earth is drier, then the building manager must upgrade the earthing. Demonstrated by professionals is a concept well understood over 100 years ago and condemned by those only educated by subjective myths:
(but again the system want to make things difficult)
http colon slash slash scott-inc dot com/html/ufer.htm
http colon slash slash triple w dot psihq.com/iread/ufergrnd.htm

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Post by SunsetKid on Wed May 23, 2012 7:46 am

Thank all of you for your advice and experience. I guess maybe "comprar barato a menudo"(I have heard is a mexican saying for buy cheap,buy often) is the solution at this time.
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Post by Zedinmexico on Wed May 23, 2012 8:18 am

cane wrote:If you have your own house buy your own transformer.Eh

and also find out how to provide a ground when there is no rain for nine months.


Old desert trick you salt the soil around the ground and you use two ground rods going at slight angles and yes you have to replace them.
We also use to water the area. Old tricks for radio grounds for radio towers in very dry areas.

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