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Post by Pedro on Sun May 24, 2015 12:13 am

does he live near jane and finch or on the danforth?

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Post by Traveller on Sun May 24, 2015 12:31 am

Pedro wrote:i read elbelg's version and i know you or at the very least your husband
Yes, Pedro, we have met on a couple of occasions and you seem quite human in real life. My husband, who never reads the web boards, actually thinks you are a nice guy. It just goes to show you can't always judge someone by looking at a couple of postings.
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Post by Playaboy on Sun May 24, 2015 3:51 am

slainte39 wrote: As far as being within an 100 mile radius of something happening that could apply to almost anywhere in the world....pretty universal.
I'm sure Waco was within a 100 mile radius of both Dallas and Austin, or people 100 miles from a movie theater in Denver, or 100 miles from the dozens of schools all over the US where there have been shootings, and the countless number of homicides and gun assaults that happen everyday all over North America, people still go on with their lives.
Why should it be any different here?
Even NYC continued to function and actually survived after 9/11, and I don't remember any line up of cars from New York City to Chicago of people trying to leave the City.
Be aware, but be sensible.

In Ocotalan there was an ambush to kill police, on May 1st there was a coordinated attack against the government and society, in Tanhuato the military was attacked and responded with full force.  In Mexico a tremendous amount of violence is directed at government.

In Chicago, NYC, Waco, or the movie theater in Denver, Sandy Hook and others, those shooting were not direct attack against the State.

Can't you see the difference?

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Post by gringal on Sun May 24, 2015 9:27 am

How about the race-related riots in the states? Who were they against? Against the police? Or the government? Or frustration with society in general? Or what? Ask a dozen people and you'll get a wide variety of answers.

From what I can gather, poor folks can rise to a lavish lifestyle if they become part of the drug cartels. If the drug trade ended, the people involved are used to the perks and are not likely to take up farming or construction. The beat would go on with other forms of crime. Same deal in the U.S.A.

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Post by CanuckBob on Sun May 24, 2015 9:41 am

Playaboy wrote:
slainte39 wrote: As far as being within an 100 mile radius of something happening that could apply to almost anywhere in the world....pretty universal.
I'm sure Waco was within a 100 mile radius of both Dallas and Austin, or people 100 miles from a movie theater in Denver, or 100 miles from the dozens of schools all over the US where there have been shootings, and the countless number of homicides and gun assaults that happen everyday all over North America, people still go on with their lives.
Why should it be any different here?
Even NYC continued to function and actually survived after 9/11, and I don't remember any line up of cars from New York City to Chicago of people trying to leave the City.
Be aware, but be sensible.

In Ocotalan there was an ambush to kill police, on May 1st there was a coordinated attack against the government and society, in Tanhuato the military was attacked and responded with full force.  In Mexico a tremendous amount of violence is directed at government.

In Chicago, NYC, Waco, or the movie theater in Denver, Sandy Hook and others, those shooting were not direct attack against the State.

Can't you see the difference?

A tremendous amount of violence is directed at the government........... by a very small percentage of the population.
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Post by slainte39 on Sun May 24, 2015 1:13 pm

Playaboy wrote:
slainte39 wrote: As far as being within an 100 mile radius of something happening that could apply to almost anywhere in the world....pretty universal.
I'm sure Waco was within a 100 mile radius of both Dallas and Austin, or people 100 miles from a movie theater in Denver, or 100 miles from the dozens of schools all over the US where there have been shootings, and the countless number of homicides and gun assaults that happen everyday all over North America, people still go on with their lives.
Why should it be any different here?
Even NYC continued to function and actually survived after 9/11, and I don't remember any line up of cars from New York City to Chicago of people trying to leave the City.
Be aware, but be sensible.

In Ocotalan there was an ambush to kill police, on May 1st there was a coordinated attack against the government and society, in Tanhuato the military was attacked and responded with full force.  In Mexico a tremendous amount of violence is directed at government.

In Chicago, NYC, Waco, or the movie theater in Denver, Sandy Hook and others, those shooting were not direct attack against the State.

Can't you see the difference?

Do you know how many law enforcement people have been killed in the US just since Jan. 1 of this year?  You are right there have been killings of innocent civilians up there over the past few years, but a lot of "police" as well.  Just last week, a policewoman in Omaha, NE, a couple of cops in Mississippi, and not long before that, a couple of cops in New York City, a couple of state troopers in PA, etc., etc., etc.
Certainly the geography and perpetrators are different, but how can you distinguish it as being that different in the end result.
Murder is murder, whether committed by brown skinned drug cartel people speaking Spanish, or white and black skinned people speaking English, or a lone wolf, or a group of 2 or 3, or a gang.
Do you remember when the US military was attacked in Ft Hood, TX, the response was different because unlike Tanhuato, they weren't prepared for it.




Yes, I can see the difference, but can you see the similarity?

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Post by CanuckBob on Sun May 24, 2015 2:19 pm

Last few years it was in Micheocon, before that Sinaloa, now its Jalsico. They will be chased out into another state soon enough. Maybe Guanajuato or Colima are next? How about Mexico City?
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Post by slainte39 on Sun May 24, 2015 2:32 pm

gringal wrote:How about the race-related riots in the states? Who were they against?  Against the police? Or the government? Or frustration with society in general?  Or what?  Ask a dozen people and you'll get a wide variety of answers.

From what I can gather, poor folks can rise to a lavish lifestyle if they become part of the drug cartels.  If the drug trade ended, the people involved are used to the perks and are not likely to take up farming or construction. The beat would go on with other forms of crime.  Same deal in the U.S.A.

gringal there is a difference here about the "crimes".

The drug business is a big lucrative, easy money business, in that the victims, i.e. buyers/users seldom complain to the authorities, so the perps only have to deal with the authorities (who aren't paid off and part of the operation).
OTH, other forms of crime that they might get into requires a lot more planning, expertise, and work,  I'm talking about bank robbery, burglaries, extortion, kidnapping, etc.  The results of these crimes have much more risk, lower profit margins, plus victims that resist, employ prevention, and for the most part, cooperate with authorities.  So the profits/rewards go down and the risk goes up, a deterrent of sorts.
There will always be criminals and crime, but it would be more difficult for them.
A  lot of poor people get recruited for the drug cartels because it is not that difficult for them until they get involved with the violent end of the business,  such as cartel competition, or police intervention.

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Post by gringal on Sun May 24, 2015 2:43 pm

You're correct in pointing out that other crimes require more planning, etc. in order to be profitable.

In the Excited States, they don't use the word "cartel" but it works out to be the same kind of criminal venture; the poor are easily seduced into the drug trade since the rewards are greater than most other options available to them. The risk/reward factor works the same way there.

To compound the situation, it's probably "snowing" in corporate headquarters as well as in government offices, often resulting in some bad decisions affecting the general population. It takes some serious bucks to keep supplied with good quality drugs.

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Post by Semalu on Sun May 24, 2015 3:14 pm

CanuckBob wrote:Last few years it was in Micheocon, before that Sinaloa, now its Jalsico. They will be chased out into another state soon enough. Maybe Guanajuato or Colima are next? How about Mexico City?

Stomp on a cockroach and the rest flee to another room....

What a bunch of wooses on this topic, talking about packing up and leaving.  Where's that emoticon of chicken little running away when I need it? "the sky is falling, the sky is falling..."

Sheesh


Large scale fight - Page 3 Chicke10

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Post by Whitey Disley on Sun May 24, 2015 7:16 pm

Smartalex wrote:Last I heard, the Chapala plaza was held by the Milenio cartel, who are allied with the Zetas. They are the people who brought us the Mothers' Day Massacre three years ago. The CJNG are their rivals and claim they are here to protect us, the general population, from the Zetas. The mass grave found near La Barca last year was the dumping ground for Zetas who were killed in Michoacan by the CJNG.  A couple of years ago, six Chapala cops were arrested when they were exposed as Milenio cartel infiltrators.

The cartel Milenio ceased to exist for all intents and purposes several years ago.

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Post by Ricardo on Mon May 25, 2015 1:01 am

slainte39 wrote:
Playaboy wrote:
slainte39 wrote: As far as being within an 100 mile radius of something happening that could apply to almost anywhere in the world....pretty universal.
I'm sure Waco was within a 100 mile radius of both Dallas and Austin, or people 100 miles from a movie theater in Denver, or 100 miles from the dozens of schools all over the US where there have been shootings, and the countless number of homicides and gun assaults that happen everyday all over North America, people still go on with their lives.
Why should it be any different here?
Even NYC continued to function and actually survived after 9/11, and I don't remember any line up of cars from New York City to Chicago of people trying to leave the City.
Be aware, but be sensible.

In Ocotalan there was an ambush to kill police, on May 1st there was a coordinated attack against the government and society, in Tanhuato the military was attacked and responded with full force.  In Mexico a tremendous amount of violence is directed at government.

In Chicago, NYC, Waco, or the movie theater in Denver, Sandy Hook and others, those shooting were not direct attack against the State.

Can't you see the difference?

Do you know how many law enforcement people have been killed in the US just since Jan. 1 of this year?  You are right there have been killings of innocent civilians up there over the past few years, but a lot of "police" as well.  Just last week, a policewoman in Omaha, NE, a couple of cops in Mississippi, and not long before that, a couple of cops in New York City, a couple of state troopers in PA, etc., etc., etc.
Certainly the geography and perpetrators are different, but how can you distinguish it as being that different in the end result.
Murder is murder, whether committed by brown skinned drug cartel people speaking Spanish, or white and black skinned people speaking English, or a lone wolf, or a group of 2 or 3, or a gang.
Do you remember when the US military was attacked in Ft Hood, TX, the response was different because unlike Tanhuato, they weren't prepared for it.




Yes, I can see the difference, but can you see the similarity?
The answer to your question about the number of police officers killed in the U. S. since Jan. 1 is fourteen, assuming you mean murdered. There were fifteen murdered in a single incident in Jalisco, and if you follow the news you can document hundreds murdered in Mexico in a single year, and that is only what is reported in the online news.

https://www.odmp.org/search/year

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Post by slainte39 on Mon May 25, 2015 11:46 am

My point was not who "wins" the numbers game, but that there are attacks on government (police), elsewhere.  It has been bad in Mexico, but they are not alone.

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Post by Pedro on Tue May 26, 2015 9:12 am

ukraine also has another country messing with them.
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Post by Playaboy on Tue May 26, 2015 7:44 pm

slainte39 wrote:
Playaboy wrote:
slainte39 wrote: As far as being within an 100 mile radius of something happening that could apply to almost anywhere in the world....pretty universal.
I'm sure Waco was within a 100 mile radius of both Dallas and Austin, or people 100 miles from a movie theater in Denver, or 100 miles from the dozens of schools all over the US where there have been shootings, and the countless number of homicides and gun assaults that happen everyday all over North America, people still go on with their lives.
Why should it be any different here?
Even NYC continued to function and actually survived after 9/11, and I don't remember any line up of cars from New York City to Chicago of people trying to leave the City.
Be aware, but be sensible.

In Ocotalan there was an ambush to kill police, on May 1st there was a coordinated attack against the government and society, in Tanhuato the military was attacked and responded with full force.  In Mexico a tremendous amount of violence is directed at government.

In Chicago, NYC, Waco, or the movie theater in Denver, Sandy Hook and others, those shooting were not direct attack against the State.

Can't you see the difference?

Do you know how many law enforcement people have been killed in the US just since Jan. 1 of this year?  You are right there have been killings of innocent civilians up there over the past few years, but a lot of "police" as well.  Just last week, a policewoman in Omaha, NE, a couple of cops in Mississippi, and not long before that, a couple of cops in New York City, a couple of state troopers in PA, etc., etc., etc.
Certainly the geography and perpetrators are different, but how can you distinguish it as being that different in the end result.
Murder is murder, whether committed by brown skinned drug cartel people speaking Spanish, or white and black skinned people speaking English, or a lone wolf, or a group of 2 or 3, or a gang.
Do you remember when the US military was attacked in Ft Hood, TX, the response was different because unlike Tanhuato, they weren't prepared for it.




Yes, I can see the difference, but can you see the similarity?

The only similarities are that people are dying.  Otherwise, the motivations behind the violence are totally different.  I don't want to get into the whole "who is more violent the USA or Mexico".  That is not the issue.  

One issue is that the corrupt criminal government is being attacked and are attacking the criminal gangs.  The other issue is that there are tremendous amounts of this country that are lawless,  These areas are not in control of any law abiding government.

Nothing personal (since I don't even know you), but I think you don't want to see what is happening to a large part of your country or your fellow Mexicans. The REAL powers to be want to keep things just the way they are, totally unsettled and people living in fear.

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