The Lunatics Rule The Asylum

Orlando, Florida.

50 Dead, 52 Injured...... officials have set up Triage for victims of America's Worst Mass Shooting....

Omar Mateen ( American Born ) 24 was the Shooter carrying a Hand Gun and AR15 ... killed by Police

Gun nutz are already saying... " What we need are more Concealed Weapons Permits "

Can you imagine 20 or so, unskilled in a live fire situation, concealed weapon holders trying to fire back at this guy? There would be twice as many dead.

Exactly what I was thinking, CBob.

Most people can't hit the broad side of a barn from more than 5 yards with a handgun unless they train regularly. In a live fire situation they would be lucky if they didn't shoot themselves.

CanuckBob wrote:Can you imagine 20 or so, unskilled in a live fire situation, concealed weapon holders trying to fire back at this guy? There would be twice as many dead.

Sorry Cbob but that is a bullsh-t comment.  

I had a CCW for over 20 years.  You have to take classes bi-annually.  I had to show proficiency in using my weapons, know the ever changing laws, and re-qualify every 2 years.  If I couldn't hit the target, then I wouldn't be able to re-qualify.

No, it is not bullshit. Hitting the target while standing calmly at a range and hitting the target in a poorly lit nightclub with hundreds of running, screaming humans and how many other shooters firing at the same time when the last time you fired your gun was two years ago are two very different things.

Playaboy wrote:

CanuckBob wrote:Can you imagine 20 or so, unskilled in a live fire situation, concealed weapon holders trying to fire back at this guy? There would be twice as many dead.

Sorry Cbob but that is a bullsh-t comment.  

I had a CCW for over 20 years.  You have to take classes bi-annually.  I had to show proficiency in using my weapons, know the ever changing laws, and re-qualify every 2 years.  If I couldn't hit the target, then I wouldn't be able to re-qualify.

Really and those requirements are Federal in the US or does each state have it's own requirement's?

Were you in a dimly lit bar with 350 screaming, panic driven people when you were qualifying for proficiency target practice?
At 2:00 AM, could you guarantee you hadn't had "few" yourself......to help your "proficiency".

Lady Otter Latté wrote:No, it is not bullshit. Hitting the target while standing calmly at a range and hitting the target in a poorly lit nightclub with hundreds of running, screaming humans and how many other shooters firing at the same time when the last time you fired your gun was two years ago are two very different things.

Sorry Lady.....didn't read your post before send.....saying the same thing.

That's okay, Slainte. It bears repeating and great minds and so forth.

In the USA, the States set the rules.  In Cali the police jurisdiction you live in issues the permit.  Fingerprints and government background checks must be approved

Having a CCW is a tremendous responsibility.  Most of you have no idea what it takes to be able to obtain a CCW.  Qualifying is a lot more than shooting paper targets in a range.  

Carrying a weapons legally means NO alcohol or drugs in your system.  ZERO!!!!  If I planned to drink and party I did not carry my gun.

In 20 years I only had to draw my weapon once.  A skid row bum, drunk and screaming like a crazy man, was threatening me and my employees with a large bowie knife.  I pulled my weapon and told him not to get any closer to us or I would KILL him right there.  He never got closer than 10 feet, so I didn't have to shoot him.  The Police arrived in less than 2 minutes.  They arrested the man and complimented me on my restraint.

One of my gun classmates took out 2 bank robbers after they killed the guard.  He was given a Medal of Commendation from the police.

There are many criminal with guns. The police can not be there to protect you. In the USA I have the right to protect myself. I did what I needed to do to legally carry.

Playaboy wrote:

CanuckBob wrote:Can you imagine 20 or so, unskilled in a live fire situation, concealed weapon holders trying to fire back at this guy? There would be twice as many dead.

Sorry Cbob but that is a bullsh-t comment.  

I had a CCW for over 20 years.  You have to take classes bi-annually.  I had to show proficiency in using my weapons, know the ever changing laws, and re-qualify every 2 years.  If I couldn't hit the target, then I wouldn't be able to re-qualify.

You gun fondlers never disappoint. He did say "unskilled in a live fire situation", but it's like you're reading from a script, drafted to overlook the the actual point.

You are a paragon of expertise and virtue, calm of mind, and. in control of your emotions when conceal carrying (as is my son). When you can assure me that everyone present and future will be as responsible and law abiding I will feel okay about being in a place (any place) where several, most or all are packing.
Isn't it amazing how the U.S. is the only civilized nation where so many citizens believe they must carry weapons in order to be safe? But, let's not look at what might be wrong with that. Let's all just train and arm ourselves for warfare because that is just the way it is.

Lady Otter Latté wrote:You are a paragon of expertise and virtue, calm of mind, and. in control of your emotions when conceal carrying (as is my son). When you can assure me that everyone present and future will be as responsible and law abiding I will feel okay about being in a place (any place) where  several, most or all are packing.
Isn't it amazing how the U.S. is the only civilized nation where so many citizens believe they must carry weapons in order to be safe? But, let's not look at what might be wrong with that. Let's all just train and arm ourselves for warfare because that is just the way it is.

Civilized? I think Inigo Montoya might have a thing or two to say about that.

My point is that if you have a CCW, you have some training and are skilled.  Otherwise you would not have the permit to carry.  Carrying without a permit makes you a criminal.  

There are no assurances in life.  Even Police officers, with all their training, fu-k up.

We could turn the USA into Mexico where only the criminal have guns, where citizens have no way to protect themselves and their families and cower like sheep when the "Bad Guys" roll into the pueblo.  Most all of my Mexican friends living in Michoacan would love to legally own "real guns" to protect themselves and their towns.

I read the news article and must have missed the part that said he was "legally" carrying weapons. It did say he was a security officer and had permission to carry a "firearm". But an assault rifle???  

I'm one of those people who wonder why so many citizens feel the need to carry weapons.  Is the U.S. becoming the world capitol of paranoia?  Or, does a substantial portion of the population think they'll be called on to participate in a revolution against the government?  What's going on?

Playaboy wrote:My point is that if you have a CCW, you have some training and are skilled.  Otherwise you would not have the permit to carry.  Carrying without a permit makes you a criminal.  

There are no assurances in life.  Even Police officers, with all their training, fu-k up.

We could turn the USA into Mexico where only the criminal have guns, where citizens have no way to protect themselves and their families and cower like sheep when the "Bad Guys" roll into the pueblo.  Most all of my Mexican friends living in Michoacan would love to legally own "real guns" to protect themselves and their towns.

So you can speak for California. What of the other states that allow people to carry guns? I guess you haven't been to Canada or many other places in the civilized world where citizen's aren't allowed to pack guns? No one is cowering like sheep or shooting up many schools or nightclubs. Gun nuts.........jeeesh.

50 people were killed and another 50 wounded. All were unarmed. Couldn't have been much worse if someone had been shooting back

There will never be a ban on guns in the U.S. Too ingrained but for sure AK-47 type weapons could & should be outlawed with strict penalties & even then, it would be hard to round up all of them because idiots will hoard them.

jrm30655 wrote:50 people were killed and another 50 wounded.  All were unarmed.  Couldn't have been much worse if someone had been shooting back

Even one more would be worse. No? The fact is, if that idiot didn't have easy access to guns then this would not likely have happened in the first place. That whole premise about everyone carrying guns is kind of like the arms race during the cold war. That didn't work too well either.

Just as in the Cold War follow the money.

lunateak wrote:Just as in the Cold War follow the money.

Just speculating here, like we all are: I think it was about hate, not money.
Naturally, Trump said it was about Islamic terrorism.
Only the dead shooter knows for sure.

Hmmmm.......Trumps good friends "the Russians" have been doing a bit of sabre rattling lately too.

What would the “founding fathers“ think? They intended us to bear arms: Single shot muskets with bayonets. Nothing more. Picture that scenario in a night club.